Candlelight Conversations - Landscape after the battle.

                      CONVERSATIONS BY CANDLELIGHT

                     LANDSCAPE AFTER THE BATTLE

                  (C) Andrey Stolyarov, 1994

  ANDREY STOLYAROV: Boris Natanovich! The situation in Russian fandom
The tactics are simply catastrophic. Several years ago, a powerful
current of Anglo-American literature - mostly poorly published and
even worse than the translated version - it literally erased everything. Everything is buried, everything
what we had was destroyed. The reader of Russian literature is not
knows. Do you think it is possible in such a situation to talk about some
Does anyone know the existence of Russian science fiction?
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: In the 30 - 35 years that have passed since then,
how for the first time I thought at all about the state of affairs in the then
Soviet, and now Russian science fiction, I have to answer
This is not the first time this question has been asked. It has already been said several times about
the crisis of our fiction, and the catastrophe that happened to it,
and about the futility of science fiction in general. I haven't dealt with this before
I agreed with this, and I still don’t agree with it. I always said:
Russian science fiction exists and has a future as long as
While talented Russian science fiction writers are alive and well. Glory
God, we have always had them, thank God, we still have them now.
Therefore, there is no talk of any catastrophe in Russian science fiction
it can't be. The process that you so colorfully described works
indeed takes place. ANDindeed, Russian science fiction writers
Nowadays it is very difficult to publish. When writers find it difficult to write -
it's natural. It's sad, but it's natural. But when they
it's difficult to publish - it's not just bad, it's unnatural
but... I must tell you that Russian science fiction writers were in such
com position always. About ten years ago, publish for real
My talented work was hampered by censorship. Publish today
talented work is hindered by the market situation, when
growing up, publishing is essentially decided by commercial structures. Name-
but commercial structures are confident that they know exactly the
tatel demand, they are the ones who declare that Russian-language literature
no one will buy or read the tour now, which is why
the English-language fiction you named and has flooded our shelves
ki. By the way, the fact that this shaft arose and collapsed
sewed, has by no means only a negative side. Don't forget-
those that, thanks precisely to the decisive invasion of the market into book production,
Our reader finally became acquainted with those works
with those authors about whom he previously only knew
lyshke and with whom he had previously met only in self-made, sa-
Mizdat, often mediocre “student” translations. And this one-
hour we finally met Orwell, we read the full
Wyndham, we now know the uncut Sheckley. Justten
years ago, nothing like this could have been dreamed of. But once-
It turns out that there is no good without a bad thing - this is a general law of nature, and
since, according to Sturgeon, 90% of everything in the world is crap, then so is 90%
published with us now, published and sold in English
science fiction is obvious junk. But the remaining 10% of reading
The tel has the opportunity to receive and - reads. Of course the situation
The Russian writer is not having fun right now. However, this has always been the case
yes. We must be patient. I have the impression that the current reader
The body has already eaten too much of foreigners. I have the impression that
a turning point is about to come, and book publishers will finally understand
Mut that English-language prose, the bulk of which is
obvious junk, I'm already tired of it. And then it will be the turn of the Russians-
Chinese science fiction writers. The most important thing is that there are writers and that they don’t
stopped working. As long as they exist, as long as
while we have Vyacheslav Rybakov and Andrey Stolyarov, they are still writing
Victor Pelevin, Boris Stern, Mikhail Weller and many, many more
my favorite, talented, relatively young writers -
Until then, Russian science fiction is alive.
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: Okay. Let's assume that Russian science fiction writers
really exist. Suppose they are writing new books.
However, Anglo-American literature has a huge advantage -
yours before us: they have been consciously and intuitively for many yearsproduced-
Validated ways of writing such works that the masses like
owl reader. Writing such works is technically not very
difficult, they can therefore be replicated in huge quantities,
only slightly varying the ideas, plot, surroundings. This is a massive, non-
imaginary flow. Russian writers are never in front of themselves
such a task was not set. Will they be able to in the current situation - here
what they're doing is competing with American fiction?
Even if Russian authors begin to be published. Wouldn't they want to
makers of something completely different - exactly what they want in everything
the world? Russian-speaking authors offer something that others don’t have.
However, does the reader need this?
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: This is an interesting question. The point is that
Russian writers, including science fiction writers, the traditions of Russian-
skoy literature. Roughly speaking, every Russian writer, working
at the desk, so to speak, burns out, shining for others. Work
melting and creating a new thing, he gives himself entirely to it - all his
feelings, all his fears, all his joys, hopes and passions he
invests in this thing. The Russian writer is characterized by strenuous
the desire to create works that serve not simply and
only reading matter, not simply and not only a means of escaping life
problems into the abode of dreams, not just a means of dispelling boredom, but
to some extent, both a textbook of life and a stimulantempathizing-
reader's knowledge, and personal confession. In short, Russian pi-
writers - I, of course, mean serious Russian writers -
lei - always was, is and, I hope, there will always be some super-
dacha They don't have that commercial agility that is so wonderful
worked out even with the best foreign authors - firstly
it’s the turn of science fiction and detective writers. I have the impression that when
Western author is working on a novel, he sets himself, chiefly,
In this way, one task is first of all to create a work of com-
commercial. This is both good and bad, as often happens in life.
This is bad, because quite often, due to such a statement,
from the author's pen come works that are lightweight and yellow-
a bit runny. This is good, because many of their works are
become the property of the widest reader's attention and,
Consequently, they receive a preferential right to exist, because
a book that no one reads has no right to exist
in general. And this work - creating works at the same time
serious, and fascinating - Western authors perform excellent
but... You are right: the Russian writer now faces the task of
war - or rather, not conquest, but market conquest. This one is
the dacha may seem low to some. But that's not true, because,
I repeat, not the writer who writes, but the writer whom he reads.
are melting. Reala writer must always follow a certain path
I see: on his left there is an abyss of boulevardism, baseness, "yellow"
taste, on his right is an abyss of elitism, an abyss not at all
smaller and no more honorable, an abyss in which people often die
the best plans and "undertakings that ascended powerfully" - simply
because they turn out to be unclaimed. Here's how to climb-
vii and our authors must pass. I'm sure, first of all, that this
the path, although narrow, exists, and, secondly, it is very, very
many of our writers are quite capable of walking this path, without
having fallen neither into the abyss of boulevardism, nor into the abyss of elitism. Yes
that I am filled with a certain optimism in this regard.
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: What they have done so far and are doing now
Russian authors, it seems to me, is the narrow path, the “path
razors". On the one hand, they do not slide into an obviously elitist league -
literature, and on the other hand, the leading group of Russian fan-
Tastov does not move to purely commercial entertainment broad-
I will require it. But in science fiction, both here and in the West, initially
sit label - "commercial literature". Don't you think that
something valuable - something that, perhaps, is the essence of Russian fandom
tastics - the test turns out to be more difficult than what is expected of it
ordinary reader. The average reader expects light entertainment
reading, and he is offered complex fiction. Name-but therefore the modern reader may recoil from the Russian
fiction. If the works of our science fiction writers were branded
"just literature", then a huge layer of readers who are still
stayed and who reads literature, but does not read science fiction, about
I would like to pay attention to our books. However, the books are presented by names
but like fantasy. That is, we cut off qualified readers
body who could perceive such literature, and the reader,
to whom it seems to be addressed in genre, it is simply not possible to perceive it
condition. This is apparently one of the main difficulties of the Russian
fiction. Vyacheslav Rybakov is not too easy to perceive. And yet
more Lazarchuk - Andrey Lazarchuk, Krasnoyarsk science fiction writer, who
ry writes much more difficult than any of our American colleagues.
Can a simple science fiction fan master it? I don't think so.
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: You know, Andrey, you are right and you are wrong.
The situation you are talking about, firstly, existed in our
Russia always exists, and secondly, it must be said that it exists in
West too. It's not just Roger Zelazny and some
Christopher Priest, there are Kurt Vonnegut and Ray Bradbury, there
it is recognized, by the way, by Pan Stanislav Lem, that is, the authors in
extremely serious and significant. The point here is this. Su-
there is literature designed for millions, and there is literature
rate designed for thousandsreaders. The literature that
you and I love the literature that we are trying to de-
in other words, that literature that alone deserves the name literature
rature - it, let's be honest, is designed for hundreds at best
thousands of readers, but certainly not millions. And a similar
zhenie - in any genre, form, type of literature. Unfortunately I don't
I can give examples from the current commercial flow, I’m following it
I’m not following, but if you turn to old writers, if you take Alek-
Sandra Belyaeva, Sergei Belyaeva, if you take some Zue-
va-Ordynets or, say, Obruchev, then they worked specifically for the Mil-
lions of readers. They made literature, if I may put it that way.
chill, relieved. It was they who created the image back in the 20s
fantastic literature as light reading literature - for
children and teenagers. But at the same time there were such
titans, like, say, Wells, who cannot be called a manufacturer
easy reading. Or Chapek. Or Zamyatin. It was a serious lit-
ratio. After all, already in our days there was, say, Ivan
Efremov, about whose work one can argue and one can express different
different points of view, but “The Razor’s Edge” cannot be classified as light,
commercial literature. And I had to hear back in those days-
I have had very unflattering reviews about this huge book created
a great erudite, reviews of exactly those people who expected from hereasy reading, we were waiting for fantastic adventures and suddenly meeting
were with the bulk of some kind of philosophical, if you like, creation. to me
it seems that the very attitude of writing for millions cannot be reconciled
to deal with ideas about high literature. High literature
ra is always literature for thousands. We need to make this clear
understand. It's not good, and it's not bad. This is true. You never
there will be no ten million copies. Forget about it! Bestseller
ditch in the Western sense of the word neither Lazarchuk, nor Rybakov, nor
You can’t write to Stolyarov, Weller, or Shchegolev. You yourself didn’t want to
keep writing them. Your maximum circulation will never exceed one hundred
thousand. And if we proceed from the real situation in the current book industry,
Denmark, then, probably, it will be ten to fifty thousand copies, and
nothing more. I repeat: this is neither good nor bad. Real
a writer must compete with Vonnegut and Bradbury, but neither
by no means with dozens and dozens of fascinating, but easy-
spring authors supplying the bulk of Western book production -
tions.
  ANDREY STOLYAROV:But then it turns out that winning the market from
American science fiction writers - Reconquista - we won’t succeed, because
that Americans, English-language fiction in general, will hold 95%
the entire market, including the Russian one. And literature, Russian
literature will never be a serious competitor to Western literature.
Look who's in the Westconsidered a good writer. You called
Lee Vonnegut. Vonnegut is not even in the top ten American
Chinese science fiction writers. And, I think, he is not even included in their first tri-
a little bit. Bradbury - I agree with you here - Bradbury is very well-known
fantastic fantasist. But, in my opinion, this is an isolated case when it is obvious
a talented person also has the ability to write
very simple. This happens. It happens - a rare coincidence about -
standing But the big four English-language science fiction writers: Clark,
Asimov, Van Vogt and someone else, I don’t remember, in my opinion, write
much worse than the big four Russian science fiction writers. At the same time,
the market orientation will follow American canons. And there's nothing here
don't do it. We will not win back the reader this way. The only one
the way, it seems to me, to give hope is to create a situation
in which fantasy - the best part of it - will be recognized as literature
rature, fiction, when she gets that read-
a person who, in principle, does not consume commercial reading material. In Russia
There are many such readers - they are the intelligentsia. In general, they read
fiction, she just doesn’t read science fiction -
because science fiction is labeled as “second-class”. How do you do-
you think maybe this path is more promising: the path of art
native literature, competition not with American science fiction, but
with serious Russian prose?
  BORISSTRUGATSKY: Of course, Andrei, I absolutely agree with you -
nice and I just want to highlight some accents. Never high
literature will not win in the competition literature of the second
varieties. This formula is suitable for all types of literature -
be it fantastic or realistic, prose or drama
gia... On the market, art always loses to consumer goods. We must
We must understand this clearly. And fantasy - I mean real
literature, what your generation calls “turbo-realism”, and
ours - realistic fantasy or magical realism - in
long fiction must only carve out its niche in the competition
new fight against commercial literature. And she has everything for it
possibilities. Because in Russia there are hundreds of thousands of qualified
readers, and they are able to appreciate, I repeat: Andrey Lazarchuk,
Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov, Mikhail Uspensky. And one more thing
a good dozen modern Russian science fiction writers. Here's how to put it
today's task. To break into, to wedge into the ranks of the realistic
what kind of literature is the ancient dream of the Strugatsky brothers. When we
started working 25 - 30 years ago, we set ourselves the name
but such a task: to prove with my works, with my journalism
Let us say that science fiction can rise to the level of high quality
tional, in some sense even elitist fiction
tours. We spent a quarter of a century trying to decidethis task - to promote
I admit that we have made very little progress, but we have made some progress. And I think
what now, when it is not ideological authorities and not censorship that determine
dividing what should be on the shelves when it is eventually re-
reader demand is growing, no matter how difficult it is for all of us now,
Our time is coming. And when the muddy wave of commercial
chesical literature, when a new stability is established, then
booksellers and publishers will appear who understand that qualified
quoted reader, numbered not in millions, but in hundreds of thousands,
- this is the most stable and reliable source of income, then
Your time will come for real - your time, if you say
more precisely, the time of the current generation of Russian science fiction writers.
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: A writer exists, as it seems to me, in two
hypostases. The first hypostasis is for readers, that is, as a fiction
rist. The second hypostasis is the writer as a literary phenomenon, that is
what is noticed, described and included in the general cultural flow.
If we can still somehow cope with the first part - readability,
because it depends on ourselves: here it is enough to write
It’s good that the reader, in the end, pays attention to your books -
tion, then with the second hypostasis - the inclusion of Russian science fiction -
ki in the world literary process - the situation is significantly worse
same. Russian science fiction writers are not noticed either by the world or by
Russian literature.As a phenomenon in literature, we are simply absent
let's talk And when I ask: does Russian science fiction exist, I
I also mean this.
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: I understand you. We are essentially talking about painful
This is the question that I have been asking myself for a long time: why is our criticism
can't see science fiction at point-blank range? Frankly speaking, the answer to this question is
There are many answers. Maybe it's a matter of tradition. General view
fantasy as second-class literature has become traditional
onnym. Then our situation is hopeless, because there is nothing more
more stable, there is nothing more hopeless than tradition,
in particular, literary criticism. This, of course, cannot help but include-
ty and the situation common to our mentality when “they know how to love
only the dead," when with great pleasure and eagerness, many
deftly and fascinatingly analyze, for example, Zamyatin, but not point-blank
they see the same Vyacheslav Rybakov.  Honestly I don't see
any simple way out of this situation. I myself wrote about
I said this repeatedly, and repeatedly, and, having reached a certain point,
the next stage of despair, as you may have heard, called for
we want writers working in the genre of science fiction to educate
own literary elite - some successes in this
areas, you see, there are: after all, we have very serious
Expert, in my opinion, critics and literary scholars - and Roman Arbit -
man, and Sergey Pereslegin -but, of course, there are still very few of them and,
Of course, they do not have such weight in official literary criticism,
what is needed for science fiction to receive its deserved
knowledge. This is one of the most painful issues in our literature. Che-
Frankly speaking, over the years I have come to terms with this state of affairs, and now
sometimes it seems to me that the mere fact that the writer,
working in the genre of fiction, exists in the eyes of readers,
enough. And in the end it doesn't really matter whether it exists in
in the eyes of high literary criticism.
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: Boris Natanovich! Let us assume that since the conquest
We will cope with the market. I think we can handle it...
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: I think that we will simply carve out our niche. We
we won't conquer the market. Russian science fiction writers will never make up 90%
book market, just like the French will not make up 90%
book market in France, and the German 90% in Germany. Mass
English-language fiction has won on a global scale, and
to hope that inside Russia we will be able to change places with her,
no need. I believe that if we manage to win back 20 - 30% of the named
ny, it will be a great success.
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: I have no doubt at all that science fiction is like
the genre will survive. It is clear that she will survive. It is clear that in Russian fandom
tastic, the part of it that we call no- will certainly survive.
howl fantasy, magical realism - in different ways. That is, thatcomponent, which is fiction. But here
Will the generation of modern Russian writers itself survive? After all
it arose from negation! If you remember the books already published
now, if you remember the manuscripts that you recently read, then
you will probably notice that the whole new wave of Russian
fiction arose out of the rejection of Soviet reality. None
she can’t offer anything positive. There is not even a hint of positivity.
But the time for denial is over. This is felt in politics, in
economy, according to the mood of society. However, science fiction is
toils in denial. Is there any hope here?
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: You know, Andrey, you are again on the same side
are right, but on the other hand, the question comes to my mind: is it bad?
high-level literature is generally capable of basing
focus on anything other than denial?
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: Of course!
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: For example?
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: Well, if we take it purely formally...
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: Yes!
  ANDREY STOLYAROV:...this is great literature from time to time
offers some positivity.
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: Namely?
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: As a rule, this is religion. Remember "Prestu-
captivity and punishment" - Raskolnikov opens the Bible. Remember
Levina from Anna Karenina...
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: I understand what you want to say, but I agree
I can't deal with you...
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: I don’tI say that I share this point
sight...
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: The fact is that the power of Crime and Punishment
niya" does not lie at all in the positive that is contained there.
The strength of this thing lies precisely in the denial of that terrible, humiliating
of the living and human-killing reality that we in the world of this growth
mana we observe. And you will agree that the pathos of denial in this novel
is eternal and universal, while the pathos of the statement - the Bible, the moral -
permanent correction - it can’t be called eternal, it’s just
for the reason that for very, very many readers this half-
residential pathos looks like a kind of formality. It's like he's dead
nen. Especially today. And if the entire Collected Works, for example,
Leo Tolstoy is based on negation, strongly precisely by negation, then
in no case can this negation be balanced by the volume
which contains the tales of a writer who tried to give a pure moral
positive I have a feeling that denial is flesh
any high work of art. Its positive
part is spirit - it is nothing more than an imprint
current of the author's morality.
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: To be honest, I suspected this before, but
Now, perhaps, I understood this quite clearly - that, it turns out...
Yes, literature - all, entirely - is based on negation. She doesn't
offers nothing positive. She doesn't offer a program. By-
gives a positive programonly religion and, apparently, precisely this
it is fundamentally different from literature.
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: Moreover, I would like to emphasize that part of your
our phrases, where you talk about all literature, including
fantastic realism, and about the turbo-realism of new science fiction writers. This
applies to them too. Literature is always a negation. It's understandable
because our world is a world of evil. Our life is a struggle with
evil. Always! Only that literature has the right to exist
where this fight against evil takes place and is at the very center
attention. Moreover, goodness - mind you! - is usually only implied -
is expressed in the text, I repeat: this is the author’s morality, and clearly
form, it may not appear at all. Mentions of goodness may
not even be. Good is present invisibly. But only in that case
tea, when you see that a hero fighting evil satisfies
certain moral criteria, only then do you feel
genuine empathy for this hero, and this is the ESSENCE of reading. What
As for the positive program, then the whole experience of literature, I would
said, world, shows that as soon as the author puts before
the goal is to make your book the Bible - a set of moral rights
fork, a set of, if you like, exemplary actions, a “textbook of life”
direct action - just one attempt at this kind of book will destroy
reaps. That is why, by the way, they could not exist in literature -
re worksin the spirit of socialist realism, if the author
strived to conscientiously follow all the canons of this ideological
sky teaching. Because one of the most important canons was - impossible
a rare demonstration of goodness. It was not enough for good to be present
act in the subtext, in the spirit of the work, - goodness had to want
walk through the pages of a book in the flesh, for example, in the form of a society secretary
coma, the bearer and speaker of the final historical, co-
social, political and moral truths. It should have been good
be present clearly, roughly, visibly, and it was present, and - once -
tore the artistic fabric of the narrative, and the work itself
turned into a mess of literary waste. But, let's say, like this:
the so-called critical realism - that's it - is eternal. In this manner pi-
the buffoon is now and will always be written, because human life is always
The battle is a struggle between evil and good. Moreover, evil is obvious, concrete,
visible, but good is intangible, elusive, sacred, like morality itself -
ownership is like the soul, you know? So, apparently, this will happen
always go - both in life and, therefore, in literature.
  ANDREY STOLYAROV: So you can’t write the Bible?
  BORIS STRUGATSKY: You cannot write the Bible. This book has already been written
sana. Once and for all. But here... You can write the Apocalypse!