Nicron #127 31 августа 2004

Интервью

Interview - an interview with the newly formed group zhelezyachnikov from Moscow: NedoPC team / group.

NedoPC team / group:
              interview

WB> What reasons moved you, how you came to the idea of 
​​productivity     dit "iron"?


cr0acker: The idea of ​​producing iron, I had a long time. It 
should be noted that almost all members of NedoPC group are 
users of the "Sprinter". So the first piece of iron I started 
designing just for "Sprinter" and it was in late August 2003.

Nemo then was still alive (in the sense of producing iron for 
the Spectrum), and Alexander Shushkov demanded of me 
programming for the Spectrum. By the time I have visited Profi 
... 

Shaos: who in turn got to cr0acker-y on me;)

cr0acker: ... (Which I gave to Paradigmuse Alone Coder-y)
which was 580VV55A. This is extremely clever chip. AND
So I decided to make a payment which one end was inserted to
in ISA slot, and at the other end it would be VV55A. In 
principle, such schemes are more than a dozen, but all they had 
one shortcoming: they do not take into account that the speed 
of 580-series 2 MHz, and the speed of the ISA higher%). In 
general, taking one of the well-known circuits and has attached 
thereto veytilku (wait), I threw up fee. But in production it 
does not matter - the fact that the firm Peters Plus lost 
interest in the Sprinter. But experience is not a gift 
disappeared. In my new programmer is exactly VV55:). Then I met 
with Roman Chuunin (CHRV), podhaltutril little (Did kursoviki 
Informatics for half classmates) and we launched the 
controllers IDE. 

CHRV: This is perhaps the easiest question, because I have 
always gravitated more to the gland, in due time graduated from 
the Institute as a 'designer and engineer of computational 
tools. " After as producers disappeared from the market and, in 
fact, there was none, our team of associates decided to do this 
difficult objective - to provide iron.


Shaos: Sprinter gave a hypothetical possibility (and not sold 
to the public) to develop hardware Software tools and 
techniques - proshivaya firmware Iron filling, like a program. 
Have a great desire to term to do something similar, flexible, 
hardware-software:). 

WB> What is the goal you are pursuing?

cr0acker: To understand what goal we are pursuing, we must 
understand what NedoPC. The term 'NedoPC' was first performed 
in pisishnom Computerra edition. Then this term is slightly 
modified Shaos (Alexander Shabarshina). In general, Alexander 
Shabarshina their personal example demonstrated how to be 
Nedopisishnik: This person wrote an emulator Sprinter without 
most companies; while at an early stage of his emulator ran 
sprinterovskie program and allows you to debug sprinterovsky 
software. 

Shaos: Back in the late 90's I wrote a computer simulator 
Orion, never having even without seeing the computer. So 
nedopisishnye trends owned me for a long time (around the end 
of 80)).


cr0acker: By coming Sprinter Shaos already written for him 
builder of the Mandelbrot set. It is this builder and showed 
that machines with a closed architecture quickly die, and that 
confirmed. 

Shaos: Still, for the sake of purity of stories we should say 
that the builder of the Mandelbrot set, I wrote after receiving 
the Sprinter:). My idea was then to develop more hardware and 
firmware for a "flexible" architecture of a sprinter, to the 
Mandelbrot set was constructed in much faster - it would have 
shown superiority of the hardware-software approach over a 
purely software, but Peters did not publish a template design 
for its large Altera - Sprinter heart, and without the layout 
to do there was nothing, it is likely to burn and Altera, and 
the computer. 

cr0acker: But I digress a bit:). Duc here, NedoPC - it's just a 
computer with a simplified system interface. After all, in 
fact, a modern computer from a programmable calculator is 
different only interface. The first PCs with us, and in the 
West have been made precisely kalkulyatornym interface:). After 
all, modern PCs spend the lion's share of his time is drawing 
to an interface. Now, of course, we are not talking about any 
kalkulyatornom interface or the command line MS DOS. Now we are 
talking about something new, what - I still do not know 
myself:). The ultimate goal of the project NedoPC is creating 
computers that are compatible among themselves and with other 
platforms. 

Shaos: Not compatible with each other processors may be 
compatible on the level of high-level languages. Now this 
language is the language of RW1 in the form of a compiler RW1P2 
(Support ZX, Orion, Radio-86RK, Specialist and partially Palm - 
perhaps the simple addition of new platforms and processors). 
Unfortunately, compatibility and flexibility given to us at the 
expense of performance. In general, the project will NedoPC 
creation of a variety of innovative approaches and paradigms in 
the field of Software and Hardware. 

CHRV: If we talk about the global goal, then its long as such
no. And so we have a definite plan of work. Part of it is 
already known: 1) IDE Controller (for Nemo; scheme was 
published in the open study    sources and was updated NedoPC 
group); 2) ATM Turbo version 7.10 (on ATM Turbo all the raw 
materials and 

   Firmware obtained through the work of Maxim and Timonina

   negotiations with his company MikroArt; all the technical 
information    tion, including files for the production of 
printed circuit boards, re    given to employees on an entirely 
voluntary MikroArt beginning    crystals. I will say even more: 
the agreement on aid 

   in the firmware native PLA (1556HL8) used in the scheme

   ATM);
3) VGA converter to the ATM turbo (and possibly other machines);
4) The universal controller for keyboard / mouse;
5) KAY-2005 (it is rather the working title of the project than 
a proper    but the board, for they will be taken rastaktovki 
and major ports with a    On the original computer, but the 
circuitry will differ    Camping is not even hard, it will be 
radically different from the original    signal, as will be 
built on the FPGA, and generally quite 

   many differences in the conceptual solutions).
Perhaps most interesting part of the people who would like to
get live Speck, "but who do not want to climb a soldering iron 
in fee. A KAI-2005, I plan to promote as an electronic

Designer for learning the basics of computing and engineering 
computing. 

Shaos: Purpose - to bestow humanity (and no more, no less:)

WB> Your opinion about the prospects of progress of the 
hardware of the Spectrum in the near future. 

cr0acker: There are many clones of the Spectrum, but none of 
them bears no progress: (. Personally, I think we should upgrade

Spectrum kernel itself. That is, replace the processor Z80 for 
anything else, though at the same Z180. I have nothing to say 
about the iron will not, except to say that now everything 
depends on the OS. Without OS super-steep iron is no different 
from iron, they have even functions will be the same: warm air. 
Can partly to please and partly to disappoint spektrumistov: 
some new version of OS already have. True, it works only on an 
ATM Turbo 2 +. 

Shaos: Prospects, as always, vague:). I think that
success will be an approach that finds a buyer, and
in the West (which will give the opportunity to sell in Russia 
the same device, but at a discount). On the other hand, the 
Spectrum-compatible machines in the West need to sell very 
carefully so as not to break the patents and licenses 
commercial firms, which are still protect someone's rights in 
different parts of the ZX Spectrum (a large This affects the 
Roma). In this sense, the approach proved very successful 
company, "Peters Plus: Their Sprinter is not a pure a clone of 
the Spectrum, rather it is a hardware emulator, and the use of 
the Roma in emulators is not punishable (recall that in 
Sprinter last modification Roma were not sewn into the ROM and 
loaded from the hard drive at startup programs, Spectrum). 

WB> Your vision of the necessary areas of progress.

cr0acker: The project 'hinge' is the 3 directions.
1) As soon as possible meeting the needs of spektrumistov

   in hardware and the resolution of existing technical 
problems. Here 

   things are moving at full speed, but there is a vacuum of 
finance    Sov. I can list specific steps:


   a) Production Controller IDE;

   b) triggering the production of circuit boards ATM Turbo 2 +.

   Now everything is ready for production. Technical 
documentation 

   for the producer is made. The calculation is obtained. Not 
enough ma    logo: Finance. But I think by September we will 
solve this problem. 

   c) Creating a VGA converter, which will revitalize the 
already-soo    isting Spectrum, which are in the hands of users

   carriers, but are not used in the absence of the mouth
   REFER display information such as "Soviet Monitor. Work in

   this direction came on the homestretch. I think the detail
   her about this project raskazhet CHRV.

CHRV: Definitely: in this direction was needed. Support for 
modern peripherals, at the moment, the most important challenge 
for developers. Agree to buy a card that quietly inserted into 
the body ATX, VGA, and keyboard plugged in - no Dream Is 
spektrumista, Spectrum is overgrown kilometers MGTFa, and parts 
lying in ruins on the table. You may say to me: yes the same 
PC. No, it's not PC, it's evolution and progress, you first 
turn on and see what's inside. 

Shaos: As a cheaper alternative would be to offer
RGB-PAL converter, which connects to any modern TV via RCA 
connectors. 

cr0acker: 2) Development of a new iron. There are two
directions:
a) A computer that would, on the one hand, the Spectrum, but 
with another - NedoPC. We are developing such a system, it is 
called KAY-2005/NedoPC-180-A. In principle, if all goes well, 
this is a true breakthrough. I can still only say that the CPU 
This system will cost Z180, as well as the VGA output will be 
on board. Will it be done, depends only on spektrumistov. 
According to the plan CHRV, this project should be a litmus 
test: need spektrumistam new hardware or not.

b) Creation of a purely NedoPC computers. In this direction 
works Shaos, developing his NedoPC-85-A, based on the i8085. I 
think about this project, he raskazhet himself.


Shaos: The plans not only on the basis of NedoPC 8085, I would 
like to touch and poyuzat all the popular and cheap 
microprocessors and microcontrollers (in particular, PIC16Fxxx, 
PIC18Fxxx, MC68HC08, MC68HC11, MC68000, Z8, Rabbit, etc.). All 
work in this direction are taking into account several aspects, 
including: design simplicity, low cost and repeatability to 
people without special experience could repeat any of our 
design. 

cr0acker: 3) Development of a PC with a fundamentally new 
architecture. In this direction, he worked mainly with his 
Lermax RVM. Roughly speaking, RVM - pereAmiga it:).


Shaos: RWM - an attempt to implement a distributed approach in 
the field of industrial automation (and more), but until the 
end work is not visible.


WB> What is the history of the group, its name, your 
acquaintance, as it all started; currently (within tactful:)).




        CHRV and cr0acker on 'sisopnike' in Moscow


cr0acker: History Group - dark matter. It started with my
familiarity with Shaosom. Shaos then lived in Yekaterinburg, 
and I'm in Phnom Penh, the Kingdom of Cambodia. The official 
date of creation NedoPC team (note, team, and not the group) is 
out NedoPC Sprinter SDK; it was a package of programming to

Sprinter. Then came my rhymes CRC for sprinters. Then the 
group's activities slowed down somewhat, but after I January 
2004 met CHRV. In July 2004, was formed NedoPC group as the 
Moscow branch NedoPC team. 

CHRV: It all started with my acquaintance with Maxim Timonina
(Maksagor). First there were delusions, then began to emerge of 
some real thing. At that time I was Sprinter2000 (sorry that it 
has ceased production). Then met with other Sprinteristami - in 
particular, with Vladimir Karpenko (cr0acker) and Alexander 
Shabarshina (Shaos). Authorship the name of the group remains 
to Alexander Shabarshina, which in currently develops 
electronic space 'burzhuyandii' (USA). Actually, the group now 
consists of four people. Directly involved in the design only 
two people (I Karpenko). Maxim more engaged koordinatorskoy 
activities and will engage in foreign affairs (in particular, 
on ATM). 

Shaos: Now I have moved from Yekaterinburg
New York, but it is not
prevents me from actively working on "NedoPC
Project "and is constantly
be on your site
http://shaos.ru/nedopc/
(Which was created in
October 2002 me and my wife, designer
OlgaGa - think
this is the real
Date of Birth NedoPC
as a phenomenon of nature).
Prefix team and try to assert themselves as
about the team emerged with
filing cr0acker-a shortly before
Sprinter SDK by NedoPC
team; to this Project
NedoPC "was (and remains) a non-profit
        Shaos project accumulate schim alternative
ideas and developments in the field perpendicular to pisishnomu 
mainstream (it is not only and not just the Spectrum). 

WB> What would be the model for promoting new developments in 
mass. 

cr0acker: Model development while promoting is fulfilled.
After the closure of the firm Nemo single center Spectrum does 
not exist. iS-DOS went to the city Balashov to Comrade. 
Ilyasovu. Iron is lost. Now we are trying to achieve 
distribution of our iron through the newspaper "ABZ @ ts" and 
Ilyasova. Get it or not, I do not know. I only say that the 
discrepancies in the way spektrumistov I do not understand. For 
example, advertisements were sent to 30 controllers (Our 
"hardware") by snail-mail - received only one response from 
person to whom ads were sent three times. 

CHRV: Until we have the following model. The first development 
is sold virtually at cost, the money will be spent on 
preparations for the next development. Now an interest on the 
part of 'Bourgeois', perhaps something will be sold there (for 
profit). Unfortunately, the majority of our community is 
totally insolvent, and therefore we are forced to engage in the 
development of devices, it is not related to the Speccy, to be 
able to have the means to development (the cost of developing 
devices are always many times greater than the cost of the 
device). In future devices, depending on complexity, we will 
invest a certain percentage of profits. But will opportunity to 
get the product free of charge: for example, I plan to one to 
collect a fee ATM at their own expense and, as a prize exhibit 
on competition "Your Game" (see the newspaper "Passage"). Will 
also be Discounts are developers who are distinguished by their 
activity (who specifically, will be resolved within the group 
NedoPC). And, of course, there will be a cumulative reduction: 
all who have anything acquired, has a discount on our devices.


Shaos: I prefer the idea of ​​full access to information 
(charts, PCB layout, source code), and the commercial direction 
NedoPC movement (represented by the Muscovites from NedoPC 
group) should help those who are unwilling or unable to spend 
time and money on processing of public information. But this 
project NedoPC basically never stops be a non-profit and 
open-minded extraordinary movement personalities.


WB> your optimism / pessimism.

cr0acker: My optimism / pessimism - loose concept, and depends
only on the situation on the Spectrum:).

CHRV: While, of course, more pessimism than optimism. In the 
current situation of community self-blame. Total outrage (but 
otherwise did not call it) for distributing software over 
networks forced to resign from Speke more than half of active 
people. A lack of modern software has created the lack of 
demand for iron - Last manufacturers, Nemo and Peters Plus, 
closed their development. And, of course, the overall situation 
in the country is not conducive to Google 

	
Язык оригинала:Язык перевода:	
 
Показать:ПереводОригинал