SPRINTER

Tuesday January 20, 1998 22:26, ​​Marat Fayzullin wrote to All:

MF> All business v tom *napishut li ego* na Spectrum. "Na chem ego mozhno
MF> napisat'" - eto chisto ritoricheskii vopros.

All these are not questions... You can write a lot. On what, it doesn’t matter either. It is possible on
asma. Give at least one reason why this is impossible. Deadlines - where are we rushing?
Objects, visibility - who is stopping you from coding and debugging separate, maximally
independent blocks? Rhetorical question: can you guarantee that the author of a word processor comparable in capabilities to Microsoft Word will receive a remuneration comparable to the profits of MS for his work? No? Then what are we arguing about?
Friware - it has always been inferior to commercial products (unless we are talking about
an advertising gimmick).

MF>: Absolutely incorrect statement. Are you saying that it’s easier
MF> : to program in a high-level language environment created around 1980
MF> and not : which has absolutely no hint of
MF> object-oriented : programming ?
MF> Proshe chem na chem? Proshe chem na assemblere? Yes, proshe.

Naturally... Your opponent is just a little dumbfounded by the wind's weathering. And
confuses the compiler with the editor (okay, let it be an “object-oriented
environment”).

Regards, Dmitry (OLDMAN).
ZXNet: 095/100.1
old...@i-connect.ru

Tut vot imeet mesto nebol'shoe neponimanie Vami processa. U Mrakosoft
Worda *net* avtora. On razrabatyvaetsya bol'shim kolichestvom lyudei
poluchayushix zarplatu. V etom kstati i est' prichina ego tolshiny.

Teper' o frivare. Esli u Vas imeetsya rynok iz 10 chelovek kotorye gotovy
zaplatit' Vam za trud, i eshe 1000 chelovek kotorye Vashu programmu
ukradut, vzlomayut, i poxvastayutsya ob etom v russkom FIDO, to nadezhd u
Vas i pravda net. I Spectrum Vash v takoi situacii prosto obrechen, i ne
budem dazhe ob etom govorit'. Popa eto. Esli zhe u Vas est' rynok, t.e.
Vam po krainei mere udalos' zastavit' zaplatit' tu tysyachu xalyavshikov -
to vse u Vas budet putem. No rynok nado sozdat', a eto nevozmozhno bez
nekotorogo minimuma program. V takoi situacii, Petersu sledovalo by
zaplatit' Vam i drugim razrabotchikam programm za sozdanie nekogo
"dzhentlemenskogo nabora". I pisat' eti programmy nado bystro i seichas.
Inache budet pozdno, i Sprinter popolnit ryad drugix russkix komp'yuternyx
kur'ezov (Irisha, Okean, pr.)

DG> Naturally... Your opponent is just a little dumbfounded by the wind's weathering. And
DG> confuses the compiler with the editor (well, okay, let it be an “object-oriented
DG> environment”).
:))))))))) Very good...
And if you, my dear friend, did not read my words very carefully, then
I hasten to disappoint you. The point, you see, is that I was talking about the “environment”, and not about the “compiler” or “editor”. The fact is that in modern systems
these concepts are combined into one thing - “integrated environment”. And you completely wrongly mistook my words for ignorance... I used the word “Wednesday” only out of habit. And the fact that you saw in this “blunder” is further confirmation of my
rightness in this matter... (Let me ask you one personal question - what assembler do you use on the Spectrum? Well, if it’s not some
GENS-1, but ZX-ASM, TASM, XAS, MASM, etc., then this is it "integrated
shells"...)
In the same way, you shouldn't have taken my words about "object-orientation" so close to heart. For three reasons:
1) In addition to the “editor and compiler”, we were also talking about the language itself...
2) Modern “developer studios” have a lot of tools for monitoring,
debugging, viewing the inheritance tree, etc. classes andobjects, so
you can really resort to your terminology “object-oriented
environment”
3) There is the concept of “visual programming environment”, which very
often accompanies object-oriented systems (although there are exceptions -
systems like Orocol)...

Good luck! Evgeny.

■ The night is shorter than the day... The day will kill me... The world of illusions burns down in it. (C) Aria.

Tuesday January 27 1998 02:53, Marat Fayzullin ─── All:

MF> : Objects, clarity - who is stopping you from coding and debugging individual,
MF> : maximally independent blocks?
MF> To chto "otdel'nye, maksimal'no nezavisimye bloki" gorazdo proshe
MF> implementirovat' na C ili C++, chem na assemblere. Podavlyayushee
MF> bol'shinstvo lyudei znakomyx odnovremenno s C/C++ i assemblerom
MF> skazhut Vam eto.
It’s just that he is not familiar with this... As well as with the fact that “objects”
are precisely the most independent (more precisely, absolutely independent)
blocks. Forgive him, okay? :))) He's used to "coding" and not "programming"...
:))
MF> Otdel'nye Spectrumovskie fanatiki ne v schet - ix
MF> slishkom malo, i v bol'shinstve sluchaev oni, pryamo skazhem, n do konca
MF> ponimayut o chem oni govoryat.
Is this a stone in my direction? :))) I'm telling you again - on the Spectrum, assembler has a clear advantage over C. Mainly - in the optimality of the
code.

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░
█ Once upon a time, Tuesday January 27 1998 02:21, Marat Fayzullin
█ wrote for All:

: MF>> Est', t.k. net program.
MF> Net, t.k. net programmy.
MF> Aaaaaxxx...[zaxodya na kol'co] Tak komu zh on nafig nuzhen bez
MF> programmy, etot komputer?
The question, as I remember, was whether the Sprinter would be sold along with
the programs attached to it. And about whether these programs will be free or
they will cost money.
There will be programs for Sprinter.
Free?
Part - yes.
Part - no.
If something like MSWord for Sprinter appears. It won't be free. At least until its creation pays off.
In my opinion, MicroSoft did not give away its programs for free immediately after they were
written.

░▒▓██ Yours sincerely, Ivan. ██▓▒░

TR-DOS 5.04Ei

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓▓▓▓▓ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░ ░▒▓█▓▒░
█ When Tuesday, January 27, 1998 02:53, Marat Fayzullin
█ wrote for All:

...
MF> tysyachu xalyavshikov - to vse u Vas budet putem. No market should
MF> create', and this is impossible without some minimum program. In such
MF> situations, Petersu followed up by paying Vam and other developers
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
with some MF programs. "gentlemen's set". I pisat' eti
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
MF> programy nado bystro i seichas.

That's what Pe is doing now. The software is already written. Of course, there are some problems that need to be done quickly and qualitatively, but it does not happen.
Therefore, it will be either quickly or qualitatively. We choose the second, otherwise,
you will get exactly what you said - popa.

MF> Alex Letaev (Alex....@p53.f689.n5020.z2.fidonet.org) wrote: : Since when
MF> packages of the is-dos system became shared? :-)))) These are programs: for
MF> commercial activities, and believe me, they don’t cost as much as Microshyt office 97.
MF>: Any person from Russia has enough money for a work kit
MF> is-dos’a, that: you can’t say about the office.
MF> Sravnite funkcional'nost' upomyanutyx Vami paketov IS-DOSa i MSOffice.
MF> Togda Vam stanet yasno za chto platyatsya den'gi.

This is a double-edged sword. Is-dos has specialized programs: a store, a warehouse, a notebook, a business calendar, a data log, paid orders, material assets, etc. There are also widely specialized spreadsheets. In MSofis there is no such variety of highly targeted packages, it is cumbersome and complicated, but here the help is in Russian, and a user-friendly interface.
And on the PC, in addition to the office, they also use 1C accounting, but in isdos this is again
there. Is-dos is more diverse than the office.

MF>: Russia is still buying PC software at pirated prices, but probably this is
MF> only: for now, and therefore the above is not an indicator.
MF> Spectrumovskii soft Russia ne pokupaet po piratskim cenam
MF> isklyuchitel'no potomu chto on malo komu nuzhen - vot piratam i
MF> neinteresno. Esli by na nego byl spros, rezko vozroslo by piratstvo.
MF> Povtoryayu, v strane where obshaya mental'nost' razvilas' vdol' idei
MF> "Zachem pokupat' kogda mozhno ukrast'?" piratit' budut nezavisimo ot
MF> platformy i ceny produkta.

If you can buy a branded disc for 10 thousand, then why piracy, since
it is not profitable for a pirate to sell cheaper, and his software will be more expensive, so no one will buy a damn thing from him. At the same price, the user will buy
better from the official distributor. Some Russian software companies realized this a long time ago, and their branded disks cost the same as pirated ones. Why then take pirated software? There is no need, here.

With respect, Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

: MF> Spectrumovskii soft Rossiya ne pokupaet po piratskim cenam
: MF> exclude because chto on malo komu nuzhen - vot piratam i
: MF> neenteresno. If not for it was demand, sharply increased by piracy.
: MF> I repeat, in countries where the problem of mental 'nost' developed' along the idea
: MF> "Why buy' when you can steal'?" If you can buy a branded CD for 10 thousand, then why pirate, since
: pirate is not profitable to sell cheaper, and more expensive will be his software, so u
: no one will buy him fig.

Hi, Alex!

29 Jan 98, Alex Letaev writes to Marat Fayzullin:

AL> This is a double-edged sword. is-dos has specialized
AL> programs: store, warehouse, notebook, business calendar,
AL> datalog, paid orders, material assets, etc. There are also
AL> widely specialized spreadsheets. In MSophis
AL> there is no such variety of highly targeted packages, it is bulky and complicated, but
AL> there are help in Russian, and a convenient interface. And in the PC, in addition to the office, they also use
AL> 1C accounting, but in the isdos this is again there. Is-dos is more
AL> diverse than office.

Regarding the ISDOS tables: garbage, not software. There are still no table processors on the spec. Even on DVK, in its 56 kilos of memory there was a drop-dead product no worse than
Excel. And here??? Software from isdos called "spreadsheets" has nothing to do with
this direction, and is somewhat reminiscent of Fox without a program interpreter.

2Sprinter Team: make a simple spreadsheet processor in the starter package - it
will be in demand!

With best wishes - Andrey Khristov (ha...@robin.alt.ru)

[Team Horse Aviation] [Team beer, girls & sofa]
[Team Electric Welding Must Die!] [Team Khasan Border Guards]

Hi, Marat!

29 Jan 98, Marat Fayzullin writes to All:

MF> Nadobnost' PostScripta tozhe uzhe ob'yasnyalas' v odnoi iz predydushix
MF> statei - posmotrite tam v arxiv. Eto daleko ne blazh' i ne
MF> uzkospecial'naya potrebnost'.

Explain - whose need? What percentage of ZX Users passionately desire PS?
PS is closely related to vector fonts, which there is no need to drag on the ZX yet.
Later, when its hardware becomes more powerful, why not make Pagestream for
Sprinter? ;)))))

MF>: Sprinter, like any other computer, is not made for everyone. This
MF> is highly specialized
MF>: a thing only for those who need a Sprinter.
MF> How-to ochen' uzko poluchaetsya. Brumbulyator - eto tozhe
MF> uzkospecial'naya shtuka tol'ko dlya tex, komu nuzhen brumbulyator? =)
MF> I skol'ko brumbulyatorov ozhidaetsya prodat' v ramkax takogo
MF> opredeleniya?

Exactly as much as they buy.

MF>: There is no need to accuse Peters of forcibly introducing crooked iron.
MF> Nikto i ne obvinyaet, prosto udivlyayutsya strannomu metodu
MF> tranzhirit' den'gi i resursy.

No... Some people are also trying to stop them, naively assuming that
the team, which has thought about something and done something, will suddenly abandon everything because of
one or two letters in this echo.
Besides,- I very much doubt that the authors of these two letters are good
specialists in the field of marketing and give perfectly correct advice.

MF>: If you want Scorpio, then buy it,
MF>: fortunately it is still on sale. Whoever needs the A500 will buy it.
MF> O. Eshe odna xarakternaya fraza. Vy, voobshe, predstavlyaete zachem
MF> 99% lyudei pokupayut komp'yuter? Pravil'no, daby ispol'zovat' ego na
MF> domu i v rabote: v kachestve pechatayushei mashinki, kal'kulyatora,
MF> terminala, i protchego i protchego, v tom chisle konechno i dlya igr.
MF> Imenno po etim parametram, po prigodnosti, i vybiraetsya komp'yuter.
MF> "Pokupaet SPRINTER potomu chto emu SPECTRUM" razve chto man'yak, a ix
MF> ochen' malo.

Well, I knew people who bought a laptop, installed FreeBSD on it and created
software, "without leaving the cash register."
A stove-calculator-terminal on the Sprinter, IMHO, will be more fun than on the
Pentagon...

Notebook pokupaetsya po ochen' prostoi prichine: esli Vy chasto ezdite
po strane i provodite chasy v aeroportax, samoletax, gostinicax, i pr.,
to imeet smysl kupit' mashinu kotoraya budet vsegda s Vami, i ispol'zovat'
etu mashinu po naznacheniyu, t.e. dlya togo dlya chego Vy obychno
ispol'zuete komp'yuter (word processing, ili software development,
ili kakie nibud' finansy - malo li chego narod na nix delaet).

Zachem pokupaetsya SPRINTER - skazat', osnovyvayas' na stat'yax etoi exi,
trudno t.k. tol'ko chto tolpa geroicheskix fanatov Z80go assemblera
potratila uimu ne ochen' gramotnogo krasnorechiya chtoby ubedit' nas v tom
chto yazyki vysokogo urovnya na SPRINTERe ne pashut i ne nuzhny,
normal'nogo word processinga tam net ne budet i ne nado, tablicy vrode
kakie-to est', no vrode kak oni sovsem i ne tablicy, i voobshe SPRINTER
proizveden imenno dlya togo chtob *oni* ego kupili, a ostal'noe vse pofig.
Brumbulyatorshiki, koroche.

Hello Evgeny! Quoting your msg of Thu 22 Jan 98 12:18 to Marat
Fayzullin :

[the mice ate]

Crazy language - C++. My first acquaintance with C took place at the institute, when a simple program accumulated 200 kilos. I was stunned...

MF>> this: in general, the old Spectrum will handle it). And it won’t take
MF>> so much time, if, of course, the person has some “groundwork”. But
MF>> the program will turn out to be: (a) : optimal; (b) fast.
MF>> Klyuchevaya fraza v
MF>> dannom paragrafe - "ne tak uzh mnogo". Skol'ko? Buduchi bolee
MF>> konkretnym,

Each coder has his own all sorts of libraries and clippings from
other people's programs. Moreover, their own, licked and polished to the tact, and not someone else’s. And on the PC Pascal libraries were made
seemingly still under HT.

EM>
EM> So I’ve already “tried it”. :))) ZX-WinWord. Taking into account the difficulties
EM> I encountered during its development, I can say that if I
EM> wrote it in
EM> C, then it would be such a monster that it would take 256K and swap
EM> every
EM> two seconds... Adding some function usually took 1-2
EM> days,

make support for 64 characters, plz, so that external fonts can
be used like in zxword. And three-letter onesextensions as in
ZXZIP/UNZIP.

MF>>: And if I’m used to it, I can do whatever I want with the system and hardware?
MF>> IMHO,
MF>>: it’s better to tolerate a little the imaginary shortcomings of the Assembler (by the way, I
MF>> about
MF>> _codes_: I didn’t say anywhere :)) ), but to be left with your hands untied,
MF>> than
MF>> to plunge into: again, the imaginary convenience of this version of C, and to be with
MF>> hands to
MF>> head wrapped in diapers.

100% truth!!!

EM>
EM> But you don’t want to say that the Spectrum has Visual C++ v4.2
EM> ? Or
EM> Borland Pascal v7.0? And I hope you don’t think that all this can
EM> be created
EM> on the Spectrum???!!!

Borland Pascal is available under CP/M on the pros. Such a bullshit...

: MF>> Kstati, otkuda vzyalas' legenda chto dlya 8-bitnyx mashin nel'zya
: MF>> pisat'
: MF>> na C? Strange.

[the mice ate]

EM>
EM> What, the spectrum resources allow this????????????!!!!!!!! That's what
EM> didn't know, he didn't know...

:)) ZED is written in Hisoft C. Feel the difference. (C)

EM> rewrites this line to a file, takes up 37 (!!!!!) kilobytes.
EM> In assembler (at least in Spectrum) a similar
EM> program
EM> will take ~ 50-100 bytes.

yeah.
2MF: in Spectrum assembler programClearing the screen takes 12 bytes. Seriously.

: MF>> (v poslednem sluchae ixnii processor obychno ponimaet BASIC na
: MF>> urovne
: MF>> zheleza).
MF> : Uh-oh... What are you talking about?

There are processors that process BASIC tokens directly, like machine commands.

PS: By the way, I accidentally launched your Oberon #3 from the screw. And he accidentally worked on it from start to finish. And it didn't crash by accident. And so
8 times in a row :) Is it a coincidence? :))) Thanx !!!

EAT>■ The night is shorter than the day... The day will kill me... The world of illusions burns down in it. (C)
EAT>Aria.

...Killing tendency - Death machine accept my corpse to be. (C) Slayer
;)

Jason.

Powered by ScorpionZS256turbo+/SMUC/HDD'IDE130Mb/FDD'800/
/CMOS/ATkbd/Mouse/CDOS

--- is'edit 4.12+
* Origin : ...Altering The Future... (500:95/462.18)

Hi, Marat!

05 Feb 98, Marat Fayzullin writes to All:

MF> : Explain - whose need? What percentage of ZX Users passionately
MF> desire PS? Potrebnost' userov kotorye kupyat Vash komp'yuter
MF> (Sprinter) dlya real'noi raboty. I na opredelennoi stadii obnaruzhat
MF> chto im nado ili napechatat' dokument v PostScripte, ili sozdat'
MF> takovoi dlya peresylki zakazchiku/partneru/itp.

The rich have their own quirks. Not a single 286 has been written off, although even the Dosov
Ventura may work... All the “twos” were put into typing and it became quite
correct to type and correct on your own, and then send it to the “girls
for layout”.

Besides, my deep opinion is this: anyone who is seriously involved in DTP
will never buy a Sprinter, since he has a Mac, Pipiska or something else
(SGI Onyx for example ;))).

Time passes, there are more and more Windows, and Mr. Gutnikov is still working on
his W&D - in vain? Nobody needs it? No, there is demand. There is and will be a demand for both PS and ASCII, even if you don’t like it and don’t believe in it...

MF>: Exactly as much as they buy.
MF> I skol'ko zhe kupyat? Two or three? :)

Time will tell...

MF> : No... Some people are also trying to stop them, naively assuming
MF> that
MF> : a team that thought about something andsomething done, suddenly all
MF> will throw because of
MF> : one or two letters in this echo.
MF> Da nu? Who is this next terrorist? =)

He will point fingers, although it was Elephant ;)))

MF> : Yes, I knew people who bought a laptop, put on it
MF> FreeBSD and wailed
MF> : software, "without leaving the cash register>" reason: if you often go
MF> abroad and spend hours in the airportax, samoletax, gostinicax, i
MF> pr., it makes sense to buy a car piece will always be with you, i
MF> use this car on purpose, ie. dlya togo dlya chego Vy
MF> obychno
MF> ispol'zuete komp'yuter (word processing, or software development,
MF> or kakie nibud' financy - malo li chego narod na nix delaet).

So and I'm about the same! Everyone has their own tasks and iron for them. I will not buy
home photo set AGFA from considerations "And suddenly have to?"

MF> Zachem pokupaetsya SPRINTER - skazat', osnovyvayas' on stat'yax etoi
MF> exi, difficult t.k. tol'ko chto tolpa geroicheskix fanatov Z80go
MF> assemblera potratila uimu ne ochen' gramotnogo krasnorechiya chtoby
MF> ubedit' nas v tom chto language vysokogo level na SPRINTERe ne pashut
MF> i ne nuzhnynormal'nogo word processinga tam net ne budet i ne nado,
MF> tablicy vrode kakie-to est', no vrode kak oni sovsem i ne tablicy, i
MF> voobshe SPRINTER proizveden imenno dlya togo chtob *oni* ego kupili, a
MF> ostal'noe vse pofig. Brumbulyatorshiki, koroche.

No, you don’t understand. You are a literate person, that's a fact. You understand many things better than
others. And some are not.

A vser'ez i ne nado. Nado pis'mo nabrat' po forme, nakladnuyu
izgotovit', plakat po sluchayu prazdnika, ob'yavleniya s veseloi
kartinkoi.

: Time passes, there are more and more Windows, but Mr. Gutnikov is still working on
: his W&D - in vain?
Vy ne uchli dve veshi:

* Tvorenie Gutnikova taki pozvolyaet vstavlyat' kartinki i delat'
eshe mnogo vsego. Ono prakticheski WYSIWYG. Ne MSWord, no
s temi zhe bazovymi vozmozhnostyami i dazhe kruche koe gde.
* Rabotaet ono vse-taki na IBM PC. Ne na Spectrum i ne na Sprintere.

: Nobody needs it? No, there is demand. Both PS and ASCII are in demand

VK> make it support 64 characters, plz, so that external fonts
VK> can be used like in zxword.
I’ll do it. In general, we are planning a small software reform here, related to the development of programs for hayes...
VK> And three-letter extensions like in ZXZIP/UNZIP.
The idea has been in the air for a long time (at least six months), and should have been
implemented back in version 2.0, but... how to say "all hands fail." :((

[.....]

VK> PS: By the way, I accidentally launched your Oberon #3 from the screw. And it accidentally worked on
VK> from start to finish. And it didn’t accidentally fail. And so
VK> 8 times in a row :) Isn’t it a coincidence? :))) Thanx !!!
Thanx. ;))) Not by chance. One of the requirements during its development was “that it would work normally with the screw.” :))

05 Feb 98 19:27, Valerij Kozhevnikov (095/462.18) reported to Evgeny Milun about
{SPRINTER}:

VK> Crazy language - C++

...but increases encoder productivity by 5-10 times.

With warm regards, Glory!

AL>> store, warehouse, notebook, business calendar, data log, paid
AL>> orders, material assets, etc. There are also widely
AL>> specialized spreadsheets. In MSofis there is no such variety
AL>> of highly targeted packages
AL>>, it is cumbersome and complicated, but here the help is in Russian, and a convenient
AL>> interface.
AL>> And on PC, in addition to the office, they also use 1C accounting, but in isdos this is again
AL>> there. Is-dos is more diverse than the office.

KF> Shmali stoned? Have you seen isdos on a real Spectrum, and not
KF> in the emulator? This is a terrible brake to say the least. Have you seen the programs for it,
KF> that you described? Using them is dangerous to life!
KF> Datalog is a converted imported database. Under trdos there is an analogue.
KF> Business calendar - you don’t even need to compare this with the
KF> program for setting the date. Mat. value - I haven’t seen it, I don’t know. The rest - this
KF> cannot be used seriously, but if you have nowhere to put the money...

KF> Wi7h be57 Wi5he5, FK0.

KF> -+- SMM version 1.05
KF> --- spb.zx.net -> fido converter v 1.9beta
KF> * Origin: Dark Dragon Station /gate from Spb.Zx.Net/ (2:5030/399.12)

It's a 3 year old. :-))))))

KF>> -+- spb.zx.net -> fido converter v 1.9beta
KF>> + Origin: Dark Dragon Station /gate from Spb.Zx.Net/ (2:5030/399.12)
AL> What the hell, this letter has come 3 times already. :-))))))

Lack of control over dupes, plus 90% manual work. :(

With all kinds of regards and wishes.
Igor.

... For some, money is the goal of life, for others, they already have it.

VM> ...but increases the encoder performance by 5-10 times.

...reducing the computer performance by exactly the same amount ;)

With the best wishes, MagiC/Extreme {magi...@usa.net}

Oddly enough, I thought the same thing, bought a PC, coded it on it, and realized
that this is a farev rulez!

▌█▐▐║▌█▐▐▌▐ W!7h 7he Be$7 W!$he$ fR0M CREATOR product
▌812/03.00▐ Powered by Cyrix 6x86L 200+/16DIMM/S3TrV2 2mb/SBpro/Q1.6Gb/USR28.8

... The glitch is not a sparrow, it flew out - kill it!

VM> ...reducing the computer's performance by exactly the same amount ;)

With good optimization there should be a reduction of 1.1-1.2 times (theory says :)

Warm greetings, Slava!

Once upon a time, specifically Thursday February 12, 1998 at 01:49 Victor
Moskalyov wrote Vyacheslav Mednonogov:

VM>>> ...but increases the encoder performance by 5-10 times.
VM>> ...reducing the computer performance by exactly the same amount ;)

TY> Nonsense. It is very difficult to overtake a modern optimizing compiler.

I think that a computer can hardly optimize better than
a person himself (this is logical)

VM>> ...but increases the productivity of the encoder by 5-10 times.

PF> Oddly enough, I thought the same thing, bought a PC, coded on it, and realized
PF> that this is Farev’s rulez!

...probably because it’s inconvenient to code on PC on ASMA ;)

VM> ...reducing the computer's performance by exactly the same amount ;)

hey, a good compiler generates GOOD code. Yes, as you write
so it will turn out. You need to be able to.

p.s. yes, the Amiga OS is written in C, like 80% of the system software.

Good Luck...

... Running a Pentium emulator on my Sinclair ZX-81, that's kicking ass ...

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VM> ...but practice shows the opposite ;)

crappy practice, however ;) (find it with a cotton wool)

VM> ! Origin: Motorola - No Risc No Fun (2:5020/661.30)

really not funny...

Hi, Max!

17 Feb 98, Max Romanoff writes to Victor Moskalyov:

MR> hey, a good compiler generates GOOD code. Yes, as you write
MR> so it will turn out. You need to be able to.
MR> p.s. Yes, Amigo is written in C, like 80% of system software.

The issue is clearly not the quality of the compiler, but rather the command system for which
it is assembled. It's no secret that the code for 68x and PDP/LSI is usually more compact than
for
x86...

AK> It's clearly not a matter of the quality of the compiler, but rather the system of commands under which
AK> is compiled. It's no secret that the code for 68x and PDP/LSI is usually
AK> more compact than for
AK> x86...

well, that too, but an important role is played by HOW YOU WRITE
some pieces. After all, you can do it head-on, or you can do it BEAUTIFULLY.
therefore the code is different.

Good Luck...

... Colors may, in time, fade.

AK> The point is clearly not in the quality of the compiler, but rather in the command system under which
AK> is compiled. It's no secret that the code for 68x and PDP/LSI is usually
AK> more compact than for
AK> x86...

in terms of commands, yes, but in terms of bytes...

1. Razmer komand u x86 seichas 16 bit i bol'she, razmer komand u PDP11
fiksirovan na 16 bitax (+ argumenty). Pro Motoroller ne znayu.

2. Registrov u PDP11 i u Motorollera bol'she - znachit men'she
neobxodimosti lezt' v pamyat', znachit men'she argumentov
(adresov, smeshenii, pr.).

A pro x86...tak na nem chto ruchkami, chto optimizatorom - vse ravno
krivo poluchaetsya. Idiotskaya arxitektura, registry eti
po-10-raz-rasshirenye, prichem k verxnim polovinkam ne dobrat'sya, a uzh
esli posmotret' skol'ko taktov kakaya komanda zanimaet - voobshe blevat'
xochetsya, ot polnogo otsutstviya zdravogo smysla.

PF> by commands, yes, but by bytes...

so, we also compared 680x0 (32bit) with various junk... in protected
mode the commands are also quite good (on a PC).

As for the byte content - on a scooter, like on a truly 32-bit
miracle, the smallest command is 1 word. (2 bytes) and at least crack.

Good Luck...

... If hackers ran the world there'd be no war. A lot of accidents, maybe...

MR> so, we also compared 680x0 (32bit) with different junk... in protected
MR> the commands are also quite good (on a PC). on a truly 32-bit
MR> miracle, the smallest command is 1 word. (2 bytes) and even crack it.

well, why isn’t there a 4kb intro on your miracle-yuda? in assembly, for example, the minimum
is 40kb??? something doesn’t fit together, it seems like it should only be twice as big ;)

PF> well, why isn’t there a 4kb intro on your miracle-yuda? for assembly, for example
PF> minimum
PF> 40kb??? Something doesn’t fit, it seems like it should only be twice as large
PF> ;)

pf... there were also 512b foreigners, on the E97 I did 1k intro (I did). but
it looks like 512b is the minimum, because... it is necessary to configure the chipset at
the beginning, and the code is at least 2 bytes per command.

yes, I saw very good 4K intros.... very...

Good Luck...

... MS-DOS: the Dwight D. Eisenhower of operating systems.

Friday March 06 1998 01:01, Paul Falcon wrote to Max Romanoff:

PF> well, why isn’t there a 4kb intro on your miracle video? on assembly for example
PF> minimum 40kb??? something doesn’t fit together, it seems like it should only be twice as big
PF> ;)

Gon! 4k compo is available at many parties (for ammy, of coz).

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · ··· Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru · · · · · ·

Hi Max!

MR> pf... there were also 512b foreigners, on E97 I did 1k intro (I did). but
MR> it seems 512b is the minimum, because... it is necessary to configure the chipset at
MR> at the beginning, and the code is at least 2 bytes per command.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and all addresses/transitions are 4 bytes...

MR> yes, I saw very good 4k intros.... very...

a couple of dozen fractals flying out from all places on the screen? :)

ps. available on PC plasma, 96 bytes...

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PF> well, why doesn’t your miracle-yude have a 4kb intro? on assembly for example
PF> minimum 40kb??? something doesn’t fit together, it seems like it should only be twice as big
PF> ;)

PF> and all addresses/transitions are 4 bytes...

transitions - from 2 bytes. in the sense of relative. (well, like JR).

Loading addresses can also be relative to some register
-> not necessarily 4 bytes.

PF> a couple of dozen fractals flying out of all places on the screen? :)

no. fancy 3D bagels... very...

PF> ps. there is a plasma on the PC, 96 bytes...

so? in cool 8-bit code under DOS? :)

Good Luck...

... IBM: The stupidity goes in before the name goes on.

I'm sitting here, reading, and suddenly I see Max Romanoff writing to Paul Falcon...

Hi Max!

MR> so? in cool 8-bit code under DOS? :)

yes.

ps.forget this conversation.

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