Discussion

Tuesday May 27, 1997 01:30, Sergei Novikov wrote to All:

SN> - There is not enough professionalism, that is, there are a lot of crackers, hackers,
SN> in the country, and people capable of creating something valuable can be counted on one hand.

Well professional hackers and crackers can also be counted on one hand...
Or do you want to say that they do not create anything valuable? I'm talking about the first ones,
of course ;)

SN> On the other hand, it's a rather absurd thought, because, according to the results
SN> of various surveys, almost half of the Sinclairists in the country have
SN> assembler proficiency.

I think this is not true ;) You are asking a question "Do you know assembly language and how well?" and the person who studied all the commands and typed the program from the ZX-Review
"Etudes" ;) with a clear conscience answers, "Yes, I know. 100%"
But I should have asked, "Do you know how to program in assembler and how
well? If so, please list what you have created you"...

SN> - Mother Laziness. Why code something when all the existing software
SN> is already enough to play for the rest of your life.

This is certainly not the reason!

SN> - Lack of normal distribution. Those. if the coder Vasya from

[missed...]

SN> is hard to believe), or IFC offers so little to the authors that it’s simply a shame to pay for such a
SN> ridiculous amountown work.

This is one of the reasons. Another - IFC will not pay anything at all for a game of normal size (and not occupying 1-2 discs). After all, it would be possible to make many such games
and there were successful attempts...

SN> - The absence of normal
SN> artists/musicians among the creators of the future game. This idea is also quite stupid: without a musician

[missed...]

SN> (adventure games, and if you don’t like them, then viral games; you can
SN> also add managers and some strategy games (a la Warcraft
SN> ;). Write, I don’t want to!

But everyone wants to write games with lots of graphics and music ;)

SN> - Lack of ideas. We always have a problem with ideas - you don’t know,

[missed...]

SN> come up with an idea on this issue -> a completely logical conclusion: with ideas
SN> there simply cannot be problems - fantasy is limitless (Fantasia has no
SN> end. (c) The Neverending Story),

The general idea or It’s easy to come up with a plot, but to work out in detail every event
of the game is extremely difficult, much more difficult than to implement it in code... Even when
you take the idea from a PC - as soon as you step back a little from complete copying, the entire subsequent chain of events
will collapse and the advantage will disappear conversion.

SN> everything just depends on the capabilities of the ZX.

Yes, nothing really depends on it, in my opinion :)

SN> - Lack of materialstimulus. Perhaps only Copper Feet'y

What do you want? Some, when they acquire sufficient experience and knowledge to implement
time-intensive projects, manage to start a family/children :)
And free time disappears somewhere :(

SN> How can you fight pirates? The question to this day does not have
SN> a clear answer: 1) way the first is to put up protections - this is now
SN> as stupid as calling on pirates to come to their senses - any protections
SN> are broken by our craftsmen (of whom a great many have now developed) at the
SN> moment,

The authors manage to earn a little while the protection is broken ;) And the “craftsmen”
are capable of quickly and correctly hacking modern protection is not so much,
especially far from large cities - and there “by mail” distributors like IFC are in charge, which therefore should be able to pay a decent
amount to the author of the program...

SN> 2) install high-level protection, such as: a) requires entering
SN> a special password, which can only be found in

Password protection could be quite effective if there were no
Spectrum publications and networks :)

SN> b) hidden verification (example - Star Heritage), i.e., for example,

And this only increases the number time spent on scrapping (it's spent checking) and the possibility of "unbroken" hacks appearing- undoubtedly a very
effective method. There were so many crooked ZH hacks! But UFO 2 didn't last long - Slava Mednonogov was too lazy to do more checks...

SN> Effective? The main thing is that not every hacker would think of looking for such vileness in the
SN> program, especially if it is just as hidden as the
SN> second cheat in UFO 2! ;)

But I wasn’t too lazy to hide the cheat :) There was too little information about this cheat
at first... With checks it’s easier: it’s either done or not - if not, then you look
why. If then at least one action needed to trigger the second cheat was known in advance (shot, button...)... The search “from the result” did not lead to anything ;)

SN> 3) list somewhere in the menu all possible distributors of this
SN> racket, inhumanely :) branding everyone else pirates and calling
SN> all sane users for the sake of all that is holy to never
SN> buy discs from them again.

The first part is logical, the second is the greatest stupidity. You should never anger hackers and pirates. Was there not enough “tour”? In Moscow they were _very_ looking forward to the next St. Petersburg
game... The best defense is to make friends with a dangerous hacker :)

SN> Now let's think about why sales of software have been falling lately: 1)
SN> people are running away to other platforms, and there's nothing about it you can't help it

That's why it's falling:(

SN> First of all, you can prohibit all bibies of a particular city
SN> (St. Petersburg, for example), from distributing new (not older than 12 months)
SN> author's games and system programs without permission from the
SN> author.

All It’s the same as “forbidding” crackers from breaking games :)

SN> Those same BBSs that violate this law are 1) deleted from all
SN> BBS lists - not a single publication publishes information about them, and everyone
SN> slowly forgets about them,

On the contrary, they are gaining great popularity ;) Are you saying that it is difficult to find a pirate server on the Internet? In my opinion, it’s easier than a frivolous program :)

SN> 2) a sysop who has broken the law is deprived of an address in the Spectrum network
SN> (ZN, SZN), if he has one.

This is all prohibited in the Charters of both networks... But one deprived of an address simply opens an
independent station... it’s not his computer to break up ;)

SN> The next stage is the Internet. It will be very difficult here, although there is no harm in it

[missed...]

SN> Now the most important thing is how you can make it so that
SN> users buy software and not copy it for free.
SN> I don’t know about others, but I, for example, don’t mind paying for a good
SN> program nth (just not the m-th! ;) amount.

I don’t mind either ;)

SN> That is, we would be happy to pay, but there is no one ;).

We’ll still have to think about thisalso about copy protection for PC...

SN> ·∙ Novikov Sergei AKA Spirit/CS [Team ZX ASM] ∙·

Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

Thu May 29, 1997 14:40, Sergei Novikov wrote to Alexey Ivanov:

SN> Why would a disabled person need to change the disk? The disk needs to be changed when it gets stuck, and
SN> such cases are quite rare - you just need to seal them - and everything is OK.

So for a disabled person, screwing up a disk is a couple of trifles: he dropped it, etc.

SN> But if now many people simply feel sorry for 15 pieces for one disk, then many people would pay 8 thousand each
SN>. Those. that selling 20 discs for 15, or selling 50 discs for
SN> 8
SN> for the same time is almost equivalent in terms of income.

As long as he sells 50 pieces, the one who bought the first of 50 will already
sell them for 5.

Yours sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

SN> in general you can do it (as a last resort), and without an artist too. After all
SN> there are several genres of games where graphics are not at all necessary
SN> (adventure games, and if you don’t like them, then virus games; you can also
SN> add managers and some strategic games (a la Warcraft ;).
SN> Write, I don’t want to!

SN> - Lack of ideas. We always have a problem with ideas - you don’t know
SN> what and come up with, the plans are so Napoleonic that not every RST can master them
SN> ;). Although personally, for me it’s the other way around - there are a lot of ideas,
SN> I just won’t be able to use them. ;( The lack of new ideas can
SN> explain many programs using the formula “primitive logic + pictures
SN> of known content” (Sex Xonix, Fifteen, Red Stone). Those who
SN> are smarter have learned to steal ideas from other platforms (“steal while they give it!”
SN> ;). This is accompanied by quite a decent interest of the masses in well-known
SN> games from the PC (Worms, Doom, Prince, UFO (²EM: _Unidentified_ Flying
SN> Object! ;), Warcraft, Dune, Kyrandia, Goblins, etc. In fact, why
SN> reinvent the wheel when there is already a ready-made idea? But, in this case,
SN> why not rip off the program, adding a bunch of your own to it? After all, for this
SN> you don’t have to be outstanding IDIAgenerator! ;) Example: we take
SN> Civilization 2, translate and change the names of units and inventions so
SN> we introduce a solid bunch of our inventions, slightly change the direction
SN> of the game (the goal is not to achieve Alpha Centauri, but to create, for example,
SN> a satellite control system, thanks to which we get the opportunity
SN> to threaten any resisting country with complete destruction, i.e.
SN> we get the whole world, formally independent, trading with us, but
SN> trembling before our superpower). You can go even further - create
SN> the possibility of interplanetary control, i.e. we develop on earth, fly
SN> into space, arrive at Alpha Centauri, and there we meet even more
SN> developed races, before which all the latest earthly technologies are
SN> nothing. The game is getting a second wind, a new surge of interest. This,
SN>, of course, is only a hundredth part of 1% of what can be thought of on this
SN> issue -> a completely logical conclusion: with ideas, problems simply cannot be
SN> - imagination is limitless (Fantasia has no end. (c)The Neverending
SN> Story), everything just depends on the capabilities of ZX.

SN> - Lack of material incentive. Perhaps only Copper Feet'y
SN> managed to make good money in the ZX field recently. People were so
SN> hammered into it ;) thatpirates are the enemies of Spectrum, that soon, as it were, they
SN> [pirates] didn’t give a damn about this whole thing because of zero sales and would not be left
SN> if we were without software at all (there are no legal distributors - if you buy
SN> distribution rights, you’ll go broke, and the pirates have folded - you won’t
SN> buy distribution rights - you’ll also go broke - people won’t wants
SN> to get involved with pirates =)... Okay, a lot of water, but nothing on the matter. How
SN> can you fight pirates? The question to this day does not have an unambiguous
SN> answer: 1) the first method is to put up protection - this is now just as stupid
SN> as calling on pirates to come to their senses - any protection is broken by our
SN> craftsmen (of whom a great many have now developed) at the moment, 2) to put up
SN> high-level protection, such as: a) requires entering a special password,
SN> which can be found only in the instructions, which can be printed
SN> only on a photocopier, which not every pirate will undertake - however,
SN> it just breaks down just as easily, b) a hidden check (example - Star
SN> Heritage), i.e., for example, after going through 20 levels of some game and spending
SN> on this 5 days, you are horrified to see that you are asked to enter that the same
SN> password, which was barely noticeably printed on the branded sticker
SN> of the floppy disk, or the game displays an abusive message like “Thisthe disk is pirated.
SN> Further passage of the game is impossible." - and it resets. Effectively?
SN> The main thing is that not every hacker would think of looking for such vileness in the program
SN>, especially if it is just as hidden as the second
SN> cheat in UFO 2! ;) 3) list somewhere in the menu all possible
SN> distributors of this racket, inhumanely :) branding everyone else
SN> pirates and calling on all sensible users for the sake of all that is holy
SN> to never buy discs from them again. However, this trick is just as easily
SN> eliminated by craftsmen (example - Dizzy Y, Softstar's version).
SN> Now let's think about why sales of software have been falling lately: 1)
SN> people are running away to other platforms, and nothing can be done about it, 2)
SN> there are more than 100 ;) different ways to get this or that
SN> for free - from friends to Fido. What to do with friends - not even the greatest genius of all times and peoples - Grandfather Lenin - could have come up with it, -
SN> but what to do with BBS - you can think of it. First of all, you can ban it. SN> to all bibbies of this or that city (St. Petersburg, for example), distribute
SN> new (not older than 12 months) copyrighted games and system programs without
SN> the permission of the author himself. The same BBSes that violate this law
SN> 1) are crossed out from all BBS lists - not a single publication publishes
SN> information about them, and everyone slowly forgets about them, 2) the sysop who has broken the law
SN> is deprived of an address in the Spectrum network (ZN, SZN), if he has one. You can come up with other sanctions - someone, and
SN> we remember and honor the Inquisition ;). Okay, enough about BBS. Let's move on to
SN> Fido. Oddly enough, limiting the distribution of proprietary software
SN> here is as simple as shelling pears - it’s enough just in the rules of both Spectrum
SN> oh to prohibit throwing domestic software no older than 1 year without the consent
SN> of the author - and everything will be OK. It will be a little more difficult with the facha, but since
SN> if anyone throws anything at it, it’s mostly 3 people (MM, IG and me ;) -
SN> sorry if I forgot anyone), then everything should work out like clockwork.
SN> The next stage is the Internet. It will be very difficult here, although it
SN> does not cause much damage - not even every tenth person has access to it.
SN> But at first you can stop giving information in echo and print about www and
SN> ftp, where there is software that does not meet the above requirement.
SN> Now the most important thing is how you can make it so that
SN> users buy software and not copy it to freebie. I don’t know about
SN> others, but I, for example, don’t mind paying fora good program for the n-th
SN> (but not the m-th! ;) amount. That is, we would be happy to pay, but there is no one
SN> ;). First of all, why such brutal prices (at least in Moscow)
SN> for new software (no cheaper than 15 thousand for a floppy disk)? Because no one
SN> buys anything. Why doesn't anyone buy anything? Because the prices are so brutal
SN> ;)! It turns out to be a vicious circle. So, people wouldn’t mind buying
SN> if a new disc, for example, cost 6 thousand. So what? A blank disk
SN> costs sellers 2 thousand, maximum 3. The rest is profit.
SN> Where the price “15 thousand” even came from - I can’t imagine. Well, okay, 7-8
SN> pieces are still realistic. Then, in the absence of proprietary software on the BBS (I
SN> am only talking about proprietary software, don’t forget), people would flock to the
SN> market. The income of sellers would not be lower. Of course, you have appeared in abundance
SN> pirates, eager to literally give away rare software. But they would not have gained much from this
SN> - with such low prices, it seems
SN> there is nowhere to reduce them. So. We got rid of pirates (I’m not talking about regions where
SN> there are no official distributors, but from there the money won’t reach the authors
SN> in any case)!
SN> So, there are no copyrighted programs on the BBS, and people are not averse to paying 6-7 thousand for
SN> an interesting program - buyersbecomes more (here you can apply
SN> copy protection - by the time it gets hacked to distribute among
SN> friends, the game will already be well snapped up by the most impatient, but while the hacked
SN> version will sell out (without pirates and BBS), a lot of time will pass. Software
SN> is being bought again, the authors’ profits may be _slightly_ less, but more stable.
SN> Maybe a little naive, but it’s better than what’s happening now, when in
SN> Mitino - the main Moscow radio market - there is not a single
SN> serious distributor left - just because someone doesn’t like
SN> too much to buy new software (c)Rabbit, when you can get it for free. After all,
SN> the same survey #2 showed that people are not averse to buying a good program for
SN> a reasonable price. so, when the “dear” Inforcom sells UFO 2 for 35
SN> thousand and Mortal Kombat and Soldier of the Future - 25 thousand each.

I also answered this point above!

SN> Well, what is your opinion, All?

Sincerely, Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

DG> What do you want? Some, when they acquire sufficient experience and knowledge to implement
DG> time-intensive projects, manage to start a family/children :) And
DG> free time disappears somewhere :(

Well, you should look at programming not as a hobby, but as
your main activity :)

With warm regards Hello, Slava.

Personally, I was faced with the following situation about this: There are a lot of people capable of doing something, but they also have the following outlook on life: “We are cool coders and we will
make demos, since we are not lamer, and everything else is for lamer!” That's all.
The result is a lot of noise, not even a little sense... :-(((

bye, with all sorts of Wishes, Fedin Pavel!

DG>> Yes, nothing particularly rests on it, in my opinion :)

SN> Well, why, for the same MK 128K is not enough.

For Mafievsky it was enough. It was also enough for BARBARIAN. You need to do it wisely, and
not scatter entire sprites across half the screen.

SN> The fact of the matter is that you need to put not a word as a password, but
SN> some kind of drawing, i.e. they won’t be able to print it in a newspaper,

You can depict it schematically, describe it... In general, you can close the
(almost 100 percent) cheat with a password, additional features, but not
unauthorized launch of the program itself. If you tell the password to ten
customers, in a short time it will be known to a thousand...

SN> In MK, according to IFC, there is the same thing - verification at some level.

Already hacked...

SN> Well, you can’t check every game... For example ZH... Try it yourself
SN> to the end.

You have never heard how games are played by looking at the algorithm puzzles in
code? ;)

DG>> effective method. There were so many crooked ZH hacks! But UFO 2 didn't last long
DG>> didn't last long - Slava Copperlegs was too lazy to put more checks
DG>> put...

SN> That's it.

And the professionalism of hackers has grown significantly by this time ;) Now
checks only slightly increase the hacking time, but it's much
more difficult for game makers to dogame "under protection". And that makes sense... Nowadays, only fanatics
break games "under trdos" - usually it is enough for the game to be copied
by a common copier like McDonald's or, in general, on the Amiga...

DG>> The first part is logical, the second is the greatest stupidity. You should never
DG>> anger hackers and pirates. Was there not enough “tour”? In Moscow they were _very_
DG>> waiting for the next St. Petersburg game... The best defense is to make friends with
DG>> a dangerous hacker

SN> How? ;) Greetings to... ? ;). ²Alex.

See. his answer to you.

DG>> This is all prohibited in the Charters of both networks... But deprived of an address, just
DG>> opens an independent station... it’s not his computer to break up ;)

SN> Are there many such enthusiasts who are ready to give up mail and mentions in
SN> the press for the sake of freeloader users unknown to him? :).also about copy protection for PC...

SN> and for A. Here you just need to publish in the press (in the same review) a listing
SN> of a program that protects against copying on PC and A, just as it was
SN> with protection from @. Everyone who needs it will use it.

Hardly... It’s a pity :( When will I be able to play ChV, MK :((

I already wrote above that, for example, I am ready to pay for a quality product. I don’t understand the desire to receive dividends
of a person who has won, for example, his “absolutely new,
unseen before!” a version of some kind of Tetris (figuratively speaking) with lousy graphics. As paradoxical as it may seem =), you can earn money through really hard work. I deeply respect
demomakers, but I want to say, “Guys! Come down from heaven to
earth! Not by demos alone and AY Spectrum lives!”.
I am open to conversation...

SN> b)
SN> hidden check (example - Star Heritage), i.e., for example, after passing 20
SN> levels of some game and having spent 5 days on it, you see with horror that
SN> you
SN> are asked to enter the same password that was barely noticeably printed on the
SN> branded sticker of the floppy disk, or the game displays an abusive inscription like
There is another option - this is to use the Spectrum version of the electronic key. The idea is not entirely good (IMHO, expensive), but it’s not the latest, I agree. Has the right to life...

SN> BBS - you can come up with one. First of all, you can prohibit all bibies of that
SN> or
SN> another city (St. Petersburg, for example), distribute new (no older than 12
SN> months)
SN> original games and systemprograms without the permission of the author.
Well, I don’t think it would be possible to ban it; it would be wiser to conclude some
normal agreements between board owners and publishers.
The latter can provide privileged rights to the former as
distributors (well, this is a matter of more detailed analysis and
separate traffic. If things go beyond empty bazaars, then
there will be a boom =))).

SN> The same
SN> BBSes that violate this law are 1) deleted from all BBS lists -
SN> not a single publication publishes information about them, and everyone slowly forgets about them
SN>, 2)
SN> the sysop who violated the law is deprived of his address in the Spectrum network (ZN, SZN),
SN> if
Quite a viable idea! Congratulations, I am pleased with your way of thinking! Together with my proposal, this can guarantee
a stable situation with the distribution of software for some time
(for how long - another conversation...).

SN> - it is enough just in the rules of both Spectrum eh to prohibit throwing
SN> domestic software no older than 1 year without the consent of the author - and everything will be OK.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Too cool. In reality, it’s better to spend at least six months, one quarter at a time.
Otherwise the interest will disappear...

SN> With
SN> the fey will be a little more difficult, but since if anyone throws anything at it, then in
SN> mostly
SN> 3 people (MM, IG and me ;) - sorry if I forgot anyone), then everything should
SN> turn out
SN> like clockwork. The next stage is the Internet. It will be very difficult here, although
SN> it does not cause much damage
SN> - not even every tenth person has access to it
SN>. But
SN> at first you can stop giving information in echo and print about www and ftp,
SN> where
SN> there is software that does not meet the above requirement.
You can install FIREWALL on the ftp site with the corresponding. settings (if
sorry, I’ve never set up such software...)

SN> were bought, not copied for free. I don’t know about others, but I,
SN> for example,
SN> don’t mind paying the n-th (but not the m-th! ;) amount for a good program. That's it! Let's be friends! =)

SN> anyway)!

Fri 09:43 30 May 1997 Alex Letaev writes to Sergei Novikov:

[...]

AL> I also answered this point above!

[*] overquoting

Best wishes! Michael, CoNoderator of ZX.SPECTRUM

SN>> That's it.
Well, let's say he wasn't lazy. As far as I know, in UFO it is not the perverted
MicroProtector that is used (as in Legacy), but its own protection, which squeezes quite a lot out of the VGshk.

DG> And the professionalism of hackers has grown significantly by this time ;) Now
DG> checks only slightly increase the hacking time, but it is much more difficult for gamemakers
DG> to make a game “under protection."
Nothing of the kind. If everything is planned in advance, and not put in at the last
moment, then everything is quite easy.
DG> And that makes sense... Nowadays only
DG> fanatics break games "for trdos" - usually it is enough for the game
DG> to be copied by a common copier like McDonald's or, in general, on
DG> Amiga...
Personally, I know only one program products that cannot be translated normally "under TR-DOS".

VM> Well, you should look at programming not as a hobby, but as
VM> your main activity :)
Then a lot of people will die of hunger. :))))

Good luck! Evgeny.

SN>> 8 many would pay. Those. that selling 20 discs at 15, that 50
SN>> discs at 8 for the same time is almost equivalent to
SN>> income.

AI> While he sells 50 pieces, the one who bought the first of the 50 will already
AI> sell them at 5.

He will not sell them at 5, because look at your formula with place, food and discs. Or he will, but he will soon get tired of it - it’s not profitable. Those. we need to find a price below which it would be unprofitable to trade.

Hasta la vista, Alexey! See you in Eden!

DG> You can depict it schematically, describe it...

How do you describe the multi-colored abru-kadabra? :) I'm serious.

DG> In general, you can close (almost 100 percent) the cheat with a password,
DG> additional features, but not the unauthorized launch of the
DG> program itself. If you give the password to ten customers, in a short
DG> time it will be known to a thousand...

So the password must be extraordinary. Well, for example, you are given a choice of 20 strange, shapeless patterns, similar to each other. Moreover, each time they change places completely randomly. You can distinguish the one you need only by thoroughly checking it with the original on paper (5-10 seconds). So how?

FP> Personally, I was faced with the following situation about this: There are a lot of people capable
FP> of doing something, but they also have the following outlook on life: “We are cool
FP> coders and we will make demos, since we are not lamer, and everything else is for
FP> lamers!” That's all. The result is a lot of noise, not even a little sense... :-(((

Games that are difficult to code (like Doom and Warcraft) are also for lamers? You can always
find a game, the implementation of which would be difficult for the very, very ace, the very
best demo maker.

Hasta la vista, Fedin! See you in Eden!

Tue 03 Jun 1997 00:58, Sergei Novikov wrote to Andrew_Lazarev and All:

AL>> Damn, what can I say! I don’t even know who in Moscow can
AL>> set up Spec for me for _grandmother_! I threw questions into the echo, I thought maybe
AL>> someone will help - “... and silence!”.

SN> ²Alxy: Are there people in Moscow repairing the Pentagons? :) I gave the person
SN> a phone number...

Let him soap or call me, I’ll give him the whole database.
Indeed, he lives in Moscow, but doesn’t know anything... Andrey, we’ll fix the soap!

With respect, Alexey Ivanov

Answering yld Tuesday, the 03 of June 1997:

AI> Sergey, but here you are not mistaken. This idea _in Moscow_ can pass! I am 99 percent sure of this
AI. In any case, in our ZXNet branch.

Wow! This idea came to me a week ago (that’s why the message came out), but it seemed unrealistic to me, so I put it aside.

AI> It will be necessary to discuss it at the sysopnik, but I think everyone will like the idea.

10000 for, say, 500 people. That's already 5 lemons a month! From one city! So
traders will have some income, and they can purchase a license from the author, and
sponsor, within reasonable limits, the creation of new software by the organization itself.

AI> Another thing: who will promote all this in Moscow, for example?

We must first discuss the idea - what if there are people who want it? :) And then: give
the coordinates of the person/people who accept “contributions” - and in a month you can shout about this
throughout the whole city (Fido, Goth, newspapers, Zx-Net, Revue, electronic
magazines).

AL>>> “Why is the Spectrophone delayed,

AI> Ask OLDMAN.

Yes, I know myself :)

SN>> And you answer them: IFK doesn’t have enough money to take it on
SN>> distribution ;)

AI> Yes, for the money they pay the authors... I would send it out through the network
AI> for free... You can’t even buy beer for a week:(

Well. They are afraid to burn out! :) When they started publishing Amiga Guide and Tricks PC they weren't
afraid :) Now they have become more experienced...

Hasta la vista, Alexey! See you in Eden!

EM>> Still, this has an impact on “global” games.
SN> Why do “global” games die (a guide with examples):

SN> === cut and save ===

SN> Warcraft - a programmer error
???
SN> Dune 2 - ???
It seems to me that this is there was just a wave - and who is cooler, and who is ahead.
SN> Kolobok - the absence of an artist
And what kind of fruit is this?
SN> Country of Dragons - ???
What is this like?
SN> Star Heritage 2 - the absence of a coder, an artist
Well, well.
SN> Special Forces - the absence of a coder
Big well, well.
SN> Fantastic Dizzy - IMHO, laziness and complexity of the task
Well, everything is not easy here.
SN> Dizzy XX - ??? Let's find out from Vav on E97
Let's find out. :)
SN> === hit and lose ===

SN> Apparently, due to the absence of the musician, no one has been hurt yet.

SN>>> there is also quite a decent interest of the masses in the famous rackets from PC
SN>>> (Worms, Doom, Prince, UFO (²EM: _Unidentified_ Flying Object! ;),
EM>> ??????????

SN> In some Oberon you called your utility something like Unrecognized or
SN> even worse Formatting O...
Absolutely right. There is such a letter, and that’s what it’s called “Unrecognized
Formatting Object”. It is intended for copying disks with non-standard numbers/sizes.sectors. The very first reason for its creation is copying the UFO.
(2VM: sorry. But we have an excuse - we released it “into the world” quite
recently).
And the first word in the English abbreviation “UFO” is still “Uknown”.

EM>> You noticed that correctly.
SN>>> 2) install high-level protection, such as: a) it is required
SN>>> to enter a special password, which can only be found in the instructions
SN>>> which can only be printed on a photocopier, which not every pirate will undertake - however, it breaks just as easily,
EM>> Nope. In order to make “instructions”, you need to implement
EM>> a normal, or at least elementary, maintenance service for “branded
EM>> programs”. And this “will raise the price of programs” - I don’t give copyright, you know who says so.
SN> They still print stickers - they will also print a small list of drawings and codes.
As far as I know, the authors themselves are engaged in printing stickers, using
improvised means. You and I are talking about a more “branded” design, delivered almost on a conveyor belt.

SN>>> - and discarded. Effective?

Tuesday June 03 1997 03:32, Alexey Ivanov ─── Sergei Novikov:

SN>> People cannot be overcome simply by persuasion and agitation. There is another - strange -
SN>> idea: to forcefully collect money from the people ;)))) No, not what you
SN>> thought. Just force all the people to join some kind of organization - something
SN>> like the Komsomol, DOSAAF, etc. - i.e. pay membership fees 8))))
SN>> (Half past midnight, give a discount, pls) :)

AL> We are FFC COMPUTERS, we deal with any repair, connection, disconnection, etc. everything related to SPECCY! It’s written ONLINE! Need repairs,
AL> write by email.

It would be nice to have a FAQ:

Q: Where in Moscow can I get my ZX repaired?

Alex Letaev (2:5020/659.53): We, FFC COMPUTERS, do any repairs,
connection, disconnection, etc. everything related to SPECCY! Need
repairs, write by email.

Hasta la vista, Igor! See you in Eden!

EM>> Well, let’s say you still won’t make a serious IBM game. For
EM>> an example, take the same UFOs.
SN> So they did the UFOs! :)
Well, so, fire and fire. You played IBM, didn't you? It differs strikingly from the Spectrum one - due to simplification in the game, the accents have changed (for example, the method of getting money, or fighting with cheaters).

EM>> Or your “favorite” “Land of Myths”.

SN> By the way, I looked at pictures from the Land of Myths in Adventurer 5 - magnificent
SN> graphics.
Did I say anything against it? Exactly a year ago, this was my most
favorite game.
SN> If we compare it with the same King's Bounty 2, which seems to have been written in
SN> BASIC and compiled :)), then this is heaven and earth. Although 48K would be _quite_ enough for such a game
SN>! (if you frequently load new blocks).
48 - no, but 128 with girlfriends is through the roof. But shhh.... Now Grigoryev
will hear and start attacking that I shouldn’t have interfered there, I shouldn’t have
shout to the whole country that I was making the 128th version, etc. :))))

SN>>> drawings-codes.
EM>> As far as I know, the authors themselves are engaged in printing stickers, using
EM>> improvised means. You and I are talking about a more “branded” design,
EM>> delivered almost on a conveyor belt.

SN> We are talking about printing one sheet with the desired password picture!
SN> And this can be done using the same “improvised means”.
Okay, let’s go from the other side.
Let’s say I’m the author. I wrote a program and inserted protection into it. Access to copying/copying, etc. I don't have any equipment. Now tell me,
who will take care of the stickers? The distributor must do it, right?
Well, can he cope without a “conveyor belt” if crowds of
authors start coming to him?

And Fanatic Stas no longer participates in the project???

Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

AI> I mean that Moscow users can support the idea
AI> of creating some kind of fund for developers
AI> of new programs, but there was no talk about the commercialization of ZXNet.

I sincerely regret, but such a project in principle is not a bad one, it’s unlikely that it will take place in
Moscow! This opinion was brought to me by a little knowledge of the Spectrum
Moscow market.

Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

AL> And Fanatic Stas is no longer involved in the project???

He participates.

Yupiy

·∙ Novikov Sergei AKA Spirit/CS [Team ZX ASM] ∙·

EM> Fir-trees. :( Well, how many times is it possible to repeat.
EM> Well, then let’s put the question differently - does the article
EM> of the criminal code on theft stop thieves?

No, of course. 100%. You won’t go and report the merchant to the police? And they
have plenty of their own worries.

Hasta la vista, Evgeny! See you in Eden!

AL> I sincerely regret, but in principle this is not a bad project, it is unlikely that it will take place in
AL> Moscow! This opinion was brought to me by a little knowledge of the Spectrum
AL> Moscow market.

Do people really feel sorry for 10 pieces a month? If one disk with software costs 15, and he
will receive all the new things in a month.

Hasta la vista, Alex! See you in Eden!

SN>> 48K would _completely_ be enough for the game! (if you frequently load new blocks).

EM> 48 - no,

On KB2? There you only need to keep in memory the map of the current level and the sprites of the monsters (20 kilos for everything). + 5K for landscape sprites - other 15K - for anything. Everything else is loaded.

Hasta la vista, Evgeny! See you in Eden!

EM>> Big well, well.

YM> What's "well, well"? Maybe I could invite _you_ to be a coder at these games?
I remember. I offered myself a year and a half ago (and it seems to me that I’m not the only one).
Now I have something to do in Samara.
Although, if you really have such a difficult situation there, then we can
offer our services and the services of our artist. Unless, of course, you are intruded
to mingle with “dirty” hackers.

P.S. I'm serious - if you need help, please contact me.

Good luck! Evgeny.

AL>> A Fanatic Stas no longer participates in the project???

YM> Does not participate.

Plin, Fantastic Sux... ;)

Andrey Fedorov AKA Alien

EM> I remembered.

No... I never forgot. With your actions, you very much reminded me of the early Isaev (Kano), only at a higher level :)) The laws of the development of civilization in a spiral are confirmed.

EM> I offered myself a year and a half ago (and it seems to me that I’m not the only one). Samara has something to do.

Well, well...

EM> Although, if you really have such a plight there, then
EM> we can offer our services and the services of our artist. Unless,
EM> of course, you don’t mind hanging out with “dirty” hackers.

These are your words about “dirty” ones... I wonder how you can write ZN-2 too,
being so far away? Theoretically, I can imagine, of course, but in practice - the process may drag on... And I don’t like you because of your such an aggressive position towards everything related to STEP CG. How to
work together? After accusing us of drunkenness at the Polytechnic?? After these
flames? Personally, I can’t imagine...

EM> P.S. I'm serious - if you need help, contact me.

Big "well, well"...

═══ All the best! ═══
══ Matthias ══

PS: I hope we put the same meaning into these “well, well”?

SN>> How do you describe the colorful Abra-Kadabra? :) I'm serious.

DG> Easy ;) By color. I'm serious.

Come on, describe a drawing that needs to be chosen from 20 (which are randomly ordered each time).

Etc. Only smaller dots ;) You can’t publish this in a newspaper (you need a sprite output), and it won’t help - you need to have a printer in order to then
distinguish between similar “shapes”.

SN>> So the password must be extraordinary. Well, for example, you are given a choice
SN>> of 20 strange shapeless patterns, similar to each other. Moreover
SN>> each time they change places completely randomly. You can distinguish
SN>> the one you need only by thoroughly checking it with the original on paper (5-10
SN>> sec). Well, how?

DG> Describe all the “originals on paper” ;)

;)

Let's see what they have to say about my game.

But by the way, an idea, for everyone who
supports the "Discussion" topic, why not
conduct some kind of test regarding:
"How much money can you make from an average statistical
game on the Spectrum", personally I'm ready to take such a step, since the game is there, so to speak, statistically average :)
Well, naturally, I did the logic (don't
swear!), it's essentially painfully
familiar Reversi with 4 levels, each
which differs in field size.
1 level 8x8, 2 - 9x9, 3 - 10x10 .
In addition, at each level there are 9 pictures in
a new mode - TM
"True Colour"

this is when the screen flashes (interlace)
and each point can be painted
in its own color independently of the others! Again
see zf#6, more details there.

By the way, distribution will be handled by
XL-Design inc.

Well, that’s the gist of it, what do you think about
this?

AI> Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

Best WiSheS To ZXNet !

-+- rulez :)
+ Origin: SpbZxNet rulez (812/03.00)

Hi Sergei !

AL>> How things are over the hill: games created by teams of programmers living
AL>> are quite real and have even received
AL>> even in different countries. I can’t say the specific names
AL>> (I forgot), but there were precedents. This is understandable: there are established systems
AL>> of fast communications (via the Internet, via their numerous
AL>> subnetworks, etc., etc.). And what do we have: ^%$#!!!! Let's say there are
AL>> good programmers in St. Petersburg, there are in Kyiv, there are in Moscow,
AL>> there are in Novosibirsk. Everyone has good developed ideas
AL>> (which, however, result in writing demos, as a rule... with
AL>> rare exceptions).

SN> New brilliant idea (:) :

And where do you get the flow of ideas? :)

SN> set up some kind of file cabinet in Fido, or something. Those. like a FAQ, where there would be
offers
SN> and demand for certain people like:

SN> Offered:

[allways plus ...]

SN> Of course, there are telephone numbers or fidish addresses everywhere.

SN> Well, how about creating such a data bank? Those. can I write DIZZY
25,
SN> but I have no idea. At the same time, someone has already come up with everything and is only looking for a coder.

Here in St. Petersburg it’s easier, I made the game in
3 weeks, music and graphics
I did the defense for the fourth week...Well
however, in zf#6 you will see a demo...

But where away from such megacities
as Moscow and St. Petersburg, there it will really
be useful, although we also have problems.

-+- zxasm

thought.
SN> Just force all the people to join some kind of organization - something like
SN> Komsomol, DOSAAF, etc. - i.e. pay membership fees 8)))) (Half past midnight,
SN> give a discount, pls) :)

very interesting idea .

SN> That is. Why shouldn’t a person pay, say, 10 grand a month. Is this a lot?
A drop
SN> in the sea. Two liter bottle of Pepsi. In a month, everyone will be able to
afford this.
SN> In return, the organization buys software and helps traders. Those. you pay 10
pieces,
SN> for example, and you have all the new products for the month right away! There are many advantages: small
SN> fee, instant access to software, communication with people in the organization itself.
SN> It is planned that the org. will be engaged not only in the distribution of software and
collection
SN> contributions, but also in the creation of software, etc. Everyone will be able to support Sinclairism in the country and receive new software without significant losses
SN>. In addition, if
all
SN> people join the organization, then it will finally be known how many
SN> Sinclairists are in this or that locality :) In short, how’s the idea?

Well, I’m completely for it, I can agitate in St. Petersburg and
SpbZXNet if things
go well, in the sense of people will take
globally to implement .

-+- zyasm
+ Origin: SpbZxNet rulez (812/03.00)

>=== hit and lose ===

SN> Nonsense. It's not a problem to deprive a pirate of an address. It is enough to command
SN> to the coordinator.

Well, (with English...)
security don't sleep! I often surf the bbs, until there was one
precedent: someone didn’t close the game, so
and sold it... here it is all over the network and
that, but the coord and
chiki-packs immediately reacted...

Saturday June 07, 1997 00:20, Yury Matveyev wrote to Evgeny Milun:

YM> No... I never forgot. With your actions, you very much reminded me
YM> of the early Isaev (Kano), only at a higher level :))

In terms of arrogance and narcissism, their M.M.A is superior to Kano by several orders of magnitude
- read his quotes about his “regional significance” online ;)
But in terms of competence and organizational abilities, there’s nothing to even compare
this You can’t take Kano away...

YM> The laws of the development of civilization in a spiral are confirmed.

Do you think Samara will be a city of hackers? ;) Well... if they learn... ;)

[missing...]

You are probably confusing it with King's Bounty - it is really written in BASIC,
and King's Bounty II by EJB & DREAM TEAM is very well made and the sprites
move at normal speed, and not like in the Land of Myths and KV in BASIC...

SN> Although 48K would be enough for such a game! (if you load
SN> new blocks frequently).

In any case, nothing prevented us from making it 128kB. Including our hackers from Samara ;) Just add a virtual memory manager to the additional memory manager, naturally, slightly optimizing the game so that it doesn’t need to go there again...

DG> In terms of arrogance and narcissism, their M.M.A is superior to Kano by several
DG> orders of magnitude - read his quotes about its “regional significance” online ;)

:) Online 84? :)

DG> But in terms of competence and organizational abilities there is nothing to compare even
DG> - you can’t take that away from Kano...

In Samara they consider MMA to be the local Kano. Is it true. :) They say they are very similar in
behaviour.

SN>> By the way, I looked at the pictures from the Land of Myths in Adventurer 5 -
SN>> great graphics. If we compare with the same King's Bounty 2,
SN>> written, it seems, in BASIC and compiled :)), then this is heaven and
SN>> earth.

DG> You are probably confusing it with King's Bounty - it is really written in
DG> BASIC,

No, I'm not confusing

DG> but King's Bounty II by EJB & DREAM TEAM is very well made
DG> and the sprites move at normal speed, and not like in the Land of Myths and
DG> HF in BASIC...

What do you mean it’s made normally? My version of Agayev is horror. Glitch on glitch, graphics in the style of "gouge out the eye", the music is stolen, the save occupies 64 sectors (!) in a messed up form... The menu with the choice of spells takes 2 seconds to draw, and the sprites are stolen and such that it would be better if they did not twitch. I'm not even talking about the stupidity of the construction - the game is impassable.

DG> Either the first or the second number of the Online is 3H-solved. Passed it
DG> “honestly” Andrey Shkolnikov and MAX/FFC.

First.

It must be said that the game was released on August 1, 1995 (almost like Vyn 95 :)). When
people asked, purely theoretically, how long it would take to complete it, I answered
that we expected that adventure experts (the coolest) would complete it in a month.
On September 2, 1995, Shkolnikov called me and enthusiastically reported that he
is now sitting and looking at the final screensaver and listens to the last musical composition in the game... :) We can add that it is incredibly difficult to complete this game alone, but that’s why we expected that they would complete it in whole apartments, groups, cities... With mutual tips and discussions. So
it happened. Shkolnikov and Max plus the Igoshevs played “together”, constantly calling each other and exchanging opinions and findings. They became the first to complete the game. Here you can make allowances for the fact that they live in Moscow and the game appeared
immediately after its release, and we were nearby - in extreme cases it was possible
to get some kind of transparent hint.

And the other day Shkolnikov played the draft version of ZH-2... The reaction was
interesting... The man forgot about all sorts of Daggerfalls and Diablos, which he has been tormenting lately and bombarded me with a bunch of questions, and then we discussed the plot for another two hours. In any case, the beginning of ZH-2 seemed so unexpected to him that he didn’t let me go for a long time :) And this despite the fact that heplayed the piece that was
written a year ago with Sergei Shishlyannikov (February-March 1996)... And I experienced
the same feelings that I had after the release of the first part. It’s a pity that now, perhaps, there is no one to finish the amazing second part...:( Although, here
recently from Krasnodar, very good graphics came from Aleksandrov, close in
plot to the second part (they tried to write something similar, but gave up and switched
to IBM) and even now with with this graphics, 100-150 locations could easily be provided... And Dima Usmanov recently “showed up” :) His “promising” job
at IBM, it seems, has finally fallen apart and now he is, as it were, “free”...
But the prospect of doing “art” at Specky is apparently still not
satisfied... Unless we subject our former artist to "carpet bombing" :)))

══════ All the best! Yupiy ════════════

They once said:

SN> In Samara they consider MMA to be the local Kano. Is it true. :) They say that they are very
SN> very similar in behavior.

In any business there is a Zhirinovsky :)

══════ All the best! Yupiy ════════════

DG> What “well, well”? Have you seen Oberon 1? This is how EM “programmed” him ;)

Apparently, you put some other meaning into “well, well”?

══════ All the best! Yupiy ════════════

SN> What do you mean done normally? My version of Agayev is horror. A glitch on a glitch,
SN> graphics in the style of “gouge out the eye”, the music is stolen, the save occupies 64 sectors
SN> (!) in a dirty form... The menu with the choice of spells there takes 2 seconds
SN> to draw, and the sprites are stolen and like that,

In the Land of Myths there are also a lot of graphics stolen from other games ;)

SN> that it would be better if they didn't twitch.

Are you sure they're twitching? I didn’t notice... I just loaded it... where?
But in SM - yes, it’s just a nightmare ;)

SN> I’m not even talking about the stupidity of the construction - the game is impassable.

Yes? And I almost ;) passed somehow... It’s pretty easy.

YM> Apparently, you put some other meaning into “well, well”?

Exactly that ;) But I need to explain this meaning, otherwise he offers help
in all seriousness...

YM> ══════ All the best! Yupiy ════════════

Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

SN> Do people really feel sorry for 10 grand a month? If one disk with software costs 15,
SN> and he will receive everything new in a month.

Everyone (almost) will consider himself cunning, and will in every possible way avoid paying
even 10 thousand, in the hope of later getting software for a friend’s money!

Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

SN> We arrived.

I didn’t even leave! :-)))) And finally I’m here recently, and I didn’t know anything about SF!

Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

They once said:

YM>> they will pass it in a month. On September 2, 1995, Shkolnikov called me and
YM>> enthusiastically told me that he was now sitting and looking at the final screensaver
YM>> and listening to the last musical composition in the game... :)

SN> 88888-{ }

What 8-( )? Too fast? :)

SN> So try to put the cartoon from ZH-1 on the Internet!!! You won't lose anything!
SN> You just make it impossible to get out of it - that's all. In .z80 format.

Do you think this will surprise anyone now?

SN> Nearby read.me with detailed information in English, how to apply for
SN> purchasing the full version, and below there The same remark is that if there are
SN> few applications, there will be no transfer. Well, and a few of the most successful pictures
SN> in .gif format.

I would like to find out the number of bourgeois people who are willing to buy the full version in English for, say, $5... And if there were 100 people, I would take it. Perhaps
it would even be possible to make an extended version (what we didn’t have time to insert, but
was being prepared).

YM>> Yes, and Dima Usmanov recently"showed up" :) His "promising" job at
YM>> IBM seems to have completely fallen apart and now he's kind of
YM>> "free"...
SN> Tricks PC? ;). Fido...

SN> PS: And if the idea of collecting monthly contributions for the development of ZX
SN> goes through, then it will be possible to get material satisfaction from ZH-2
SN>.

But I doubt this idea... Perhaps money can only be collected from
sysopnik. How many people are there? 50 people - maximum?.. Or even
less... No one has seen the rest of the Spectrum network members... BUT!
Let's try to count. Let's say 100 people give 10 thousand each. We get
100x10000=1000000 (1 million rubles) in the first month... That is, less than 200 bucks. And this is for a team (for example, for ZN-2) of three people... No one will work for that kind of money. I can show the level of profitability in numbers. _Minimum_ -
300 bucks per month for each (artist, coder, screenwriter). Fluctuations are possible,
but not significant (mostly upwards ;) ). In this case, work
is possible. The final product is good, butaverage level. If you expect more, you will have to pay more. Agreed? Then we count. With this level of payment, the game can be written, say, in 3 months... Thus, it takes 3
months for everyone to hand over 10,000 rubles. And there should be at least
513 such “volunteers”! Human. Or 256 people, but you will have to hand over ;) 20,000 rubles.
You can find even fewer people - just gather sysops ;) - let's say, 128 people,
then these sysops will need to hand over 40,000 rubles. every month for 3
months (in general, like in that fairy tale about hats). The most interesting thing is if here, in
echo, there are 13 people (apparently traders) who are willing to pay 400
thousand rubles per month (3 months) - ZH-2, and any other product may well see the light of day.
As a result, everyone will receive the ZH-2 distribution in 3 months, naturally, without
protection... Now think about how much it costs to produce good software for specs. I think all this is unrealistic for supply workers. At the same time, keep in mind that I took the minimum possible level of payment for the author's team... Some people will not even agree to such payment. Although, here's an open poll in the echo:

2Oldman: are you ready to work on ZH-2 (or on any other full-scale program) for 3 months for 300 bucks a month? ;)
By the way, you can ask Markin the same thing ;) I, perhaps, with some
reservations,ready (there's nothing much to do in the summer anyway) ;)

2Fanatic Stas: Are you ready to finish work on SF within 3 months for
300 bucks a month? That is, earn almost a grand over the summer?

2EvMil: Are you, as a professional, satisfied with this level of payment for the preparation and release of high-quality software, executed
at the level of the best examples of both Western and domestic software?

2CopperFeet: But you don’t I ask - you have more :))

══════ All the best! Yupiy ════════════

They once said:

YM>> 2Oldman: are you ready to work for 3 months on ZH-2 (or on some
YM>> other full-scale program) for 300 bucks in month? ;)
DG> 300 bucks for a family with an ever-growing child? You're kidding me ;( We
DG> spend more in a week or two, denying ourselves a lot...

8-( ) Well, with this I offer you in rufamil or mistress ;) And in general -
why do you need to work if you only have a few bucks a month :))) (Joke).
Okay, name the price for Are you ready to take on coding a full-scale game using a ready-made script? Let everyone hear. ;)

DG> Of course, this amount would not be superfluous, but the volume of work is frightening.

What is the volume of work? If at work you go into the room where the Speck is located and work full time with a lunch break and days off on Saturday and Sunday. - We'll do it in three
months. Or do you think that you can find a job with a higher salary without full time? If your child interferes with your work, come to me as if you were going to work. :)
Tell your wife - I’m off to work... And I left. That's it, no one bothers you anymore. :))

DG> Not the complexity of the task, but the time
DG> that may need to be devoted to it, abandoning other
DG> possible
DG> sources of income. In my case, it is hardly appropriate to experiment...

As a result- no additional sources of income, no games... But only
Online :) ;(

DG> And what is “another full-scale”? If some kind of sexlapta for a couple
DG> of disks, then why three months and why an artist? ;-) What? Clean
DG> Commercial Project ;)

You can’t even raise that kind of money for SexLapta...

══════ All the best! Yupiy ════════════

Sat 07 Jun 1997 19:11, Alex Letaev wrote to Sergei Novikov:

AL> Everyone (almost) considers himself cunning, and will in every possible way avoid paying
AL> even 10 thousand, in the hope of later getting software for a friend’s money!

...just not on a sysopnik...we are all in solidarity.
We need to create something like a Club (just not based on Fridman).

AL> Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

YM> But I doubt this idea... Perhaps money can only be collected
YM> on a sysopnik. How many people are there? 50 people - maximum?.. And
YM> even less... No one has seen
YM> the rest of the participants in the Spectrum network... BUT!
YM> Let's try to count. Let's say 100 people give 10 thousand each. We get
YM> 100x10000=1000000 (1 million rubles) in the first month... That is, less than 200
YM> bucks. And this is for a team (for example, for ZH-2) of three people... No one will work for that kind of money. I can show in numbers the level of
YM> profitability. _Minimum_ - 300 bucks per month for each (artist,
YM> coder, screenwriter). Fluctuations are possible, but not significant (mostly
YM> on the larger side ;) ). In this case, work is possible. The final product
YM> is at a good, but average level. If you count on more, you will have to pay more. Agreed? Then we count. With this level of payment
YM> the game can be written, say, in 3 months... Thus, you need
YM> for three months to each hand over 10,000 rubles. And there should be at least 513 such “volunteers”! Human. Or 256 people, but you will have to rent
YM> for ;) 20,000 rubles. You can find even fewer people - just sysops
YM> ;) - let's say there are 128 people, then these sysops needwill
YM> rent for 40,000 rubles. every month for 3 months (in general, as in
YM> that fairy tale about hats). The most interesting thing is if here, in the echo, there are 13
YM> people (apparently traders) who are willing to pay 400 thousand rubles per month (3
YM> months) - ZH-2, and any other product may well see the light of day. Q

I'm afraid that Moscow traders (except probably for Inforcom) simply cannot handle such a project in terms of the amount of investment! Medzhikov’s ticket to Mitino even stopped paying for itself, and about Tsaritsino: I’ve been selling Spectrum software for a long time for the soul, and not
for profit (we are so mysterious FFC!), but for profit CDs.

With respect, Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

Sun 08 June 1997 14:33, Yury Matveyev wrote to Dmitry Grigoryev:

YM> (Joke). Okay, name the price for which you are willing to undertake coding
YM> of a full-scale game based on a ready-made script? Let everyone hear. ;)

According to a ready-made scenario, without solving organizational issues, with the fastest
receipt of the necessary materials (that is, so that all project participants
keep up with me in pace) - well, let's say... $2000 for ZH2 in advance and $800 per
month during the entire work ;) This is if you focus on the quality of ZH1.

YM> Yes, what is the scope of work? If at work you go into the room where
YM> Speck stands and work full time with a lunch break and days off on Saturday and
YM> Sun. - We’ll do it in three months.

Do you think this is a small amount of work? About 600 working hours? By the way, we make SPF
22 for six months... Are you still insisting on three months? ;)

YM> Or do you think that you can find a job with a higher salary not on full
YM> time?

But you can find a job with a salary greater than $300 _on_ full time. How much time will then
be left for additional coding, one can only guess...

YM> As a result - no additional sources of income,

On Specky? Spectrophone - recently. In any case, this is the source... ;)

YM> not a game...

What is this? "Every man must raise a son, planttree..." and release a
computer game? ;-)

YM> But only Online :) ;(

Should I feel inferior? ;)

YM> You can’t even raise that kind of money for SexLapta...

You just convinced me that this is normal money ;) Why don’t you?
Sex tag games were extremely popular. But I’m kidding, of course ;)

DG> The best protection is to make friends with a dangerous hacker :)

“If you want to adopt two moose, join the animal welfare society”?
:)

Andrew

DG> According to the finished script, without solving organizational issues, with
DG> obtaining the necessary materials as quickly as possible (that is, so that
DG> all project participants keep up with me in pace)

From the experience of writing ZH-1 - everything goes smoothly, like a conveyor belt (when everything
works normally).

DG> - well, let's say... $2000 for ZH2 in advance and $800 per month during the entire
DG> work ;)

8-() :) We didn’t get that much for the first one at all :))

DG> This is if you go by the quality of ZH1.

2 ShiSoft: ;) Do you appreciate it!? We underestimated our return requirements too much...

Apparently, we then needed to sell for 20-25 thousand. per disc. But it seemed
unreal... At these prices, perhaps we would have raised the money you
dream about.

YM>> We’ll do it in three months.
DG> Do you consider this a small amount of work? About 600 working hours?

This is a normal amount. ZH-1 was written without any hesitation for about half a year
(a demo appeared in February), and then over the summer (from May to August) - we made a push
and finished it off... :)

DG> By the way, we have been making SPF 22 for six months... Are you still insisting on three
DG> months? ;)

We _kick_ SPF for half a year. By the way, it’s all for the same reason - there are no incentives as such... In the best of times, it was possible to produce SPF strictly once every month. Then the money was
more...

DG> But you can find it with more than $300salary _for_ full time. How much time
DG> will then be left for additional coding, one can only guess...

Not how much - I assure you. An example is ShiSoft, which, when applying for a job, was also thinking about the same SPF and ZN-2. As soon as he got settled, all the questions disappeared by themselves and a booming sound came through the telephone wires: “I can’t”...

Tuesday June 03 1997 21:12, Andrey Mihaylow ─── Evgeny Milun:

DG>>> And the professionalism of hackers has increased significantly by this time ;)
AM> Rather, the professionalism of those who protect has increased :)
Also true. But partly.
DG>>> Now checks only slightly increase the hacking time, but
DG>>> it is much more difficult for gamemakers to make a game “under protection”.
AM> It’s just that we don’t have people who do only this.
“Only this”, is it games, or protections?
EM>> Nothing of the kind. If everything is planned in advance, and not put at
EM>> at the last moment, then everything is quite easy.
AM> Yes, I agree with DG example "ZX-FORMAT'5" I broke it in 1 hour in sts3.2,
And SPF breaks in 5 minutes. So what? But you can’t put ZXF on a regular TR-DOS
disk - there’s not enough space! So, what do you break it, what don’t break it
what difference does it make, it won’t be a full-fledged magazine anymore?
AM> and my classmate (PoS) actually copied it to speccy along with protection
AM> (2 sectors F0)
It’s incredible. :)) Now, if there were sectors with numbers more than
#F5...
AM> per day,
Well, with the help of one special copier this can be done in 5
minutes.

Good luck! Evgeny.

DG> What is this? “Every man should raise a son, plant a tree...” and
DG> release a computer game? ;-)

AI> ...just not on the sysopnik... we are all in solidarity. We need to create something
AI> like a Club (just not based on Friedman).

Good idea! After all, there are still BC clubs, but for some reason there is no SPECCY club yet! And in such a club such a project can work!

VM> I naively continue to assert that it is possible to create virtually
VM> unbreakable protection,

In relation to “in general”, it is really naive.

VM> if it includes an uncopyable element. I know of three such elements
VM>:

VM> 1 - thick documentation;

Every self-respecting toy (on CD) comes with a thick accompanying
book with a plot and background. The absence of such a booklet from pirated CDs
probably only helps - without taking time away from the game itself (some are even
sure that there are no such books at all) :) For more or less serious
"near-program" software, the lack of documentation has a stronger impact, but as
practice shows - it is not fatal.
In relation to Specki - production is also Thick documentation will increase the cost of the product so much that it must be something that will knock your socks off!

VM> 2 - a key stuck somewhere;

The circuitry of the keys is, in principle, sufficiently developed, both on the part of the
manufacturers and on the other side :) Of course, removal skills require
more than just poking around in the program. But in most cases, strangely enough, it helps (especially if the key is simply “hung” on the program).
Theoretically, it is possible to disassemble the “key” andrepeat (but, fortunately, this is not our “price category”). Good results are obtained by using cryptographic protection (and not only using a key), but only if the protection mechanism is “built into” the program itself.
In relation to Specs, it is similar to the previous one.

VM> 3 - defects on the disk;

It is bypassed by software, and causes the buyer, in addition to general hemorrhoids,
for example, damage to the drive heads.

VM> However, serial_number/computer_configuration can be used
VM> as a non-copyable element as follows:

{skipped}
I just don’t understand why bother the author?
Actually, if my memory serves me correctly (and I’m too lazy to bring up archives), something
like this has been discussed here more than once, and with the “usual” result.

VM> And where do they teach professional hacker? :))

Training courses? Classes three times a week in the evening. That's a thought!

Andrew

SN> thought. Just force all the people to join some kind of organization - something
SN> like the Komsomol, DOSAAF, etc. - i.e. pay membership fees 8))))

“What you protect is what you have. If you don’t protect anything, you have nothing.”

Something drew me to Zhvanetsky. Is your idea clear?

Andrew

VM> 3 - defects on the disk;

Don’t think about twisting the “trick” (my term - don’t nitpick ;)
Somewhere in the program there will be a procedure that checks the key/defect. It's easy
to turn it off. So think about how to hide this procedure and tie it more tightly to
the program.

Defects, by the way, reduce the service life of disk drive heads, perversions with
non-standard formatting sharply reduce the quality of floppy disk reading and
compatibility with numerous drive controllers, and the key needs to be inserted
somewhere... where to insert it in the Pentagon (lieutenant - keep quiet ;)

VM> However, it is possible
VM> to use the serial_number/computer_configuration as a non-copyable element in the following way:

Again, it is easy to find a procedure that compares the number.

YM>> cities...

DG> Naturally, I meant _only_ the SPEED CO groups. and SoK...
DG> The rest of the Samara hackers are silent for some reason...
But because, QUEEN SOFT. on IBM, SAGE GROUP almost everything on AMIGE,
Yes and Speed ​​Co. also not a purely Spectrum ZX/IBM team, but soon there will be
AMIGA.

AM>> protection (2 sectors F0)
EM> What a miracle. :)) Now, if there were sectors with numbers greater
EM> than #F5...
Sorry, I peed myself, of course, F7 (I wanted to know if anyone would notice or not)
you probably know that F7 is a service code, and is written to disk
as a two-batt POS sequence (F7 00), but about all the others sectors
so it’s not worth a damn, and it’s copied on our (T-REX\PoS) copier
in 1.5-2 minutes, and the copier is standard, so you’re signing me up early
break POSPROT1 in STS3.3, or better yet POSPROT2 in STS5.0 ;)

PS. In general, we had a branded ZXF from INFORCOM, with a seal as it should be and
lasted only a day, so draw your conclusions, if you don’t believe it, ask DRAGON
(via MMA)...

With respect Andy Man

DG> Don't think about twisting the "trick" (my term - don't quibble ;)
DG> Somewhere in the program there will be a procedure that checks the key/defect. It's easy
DG> to turn it off. So think about how to hide this procedure and tie it more tightly to the
DG> program.

I think that it won’t be possible to hide it - which means you don’t need to do this, but you need to
go a different way. I went twice, but, you know, it was somehow not successful :) Maybe
I'll be lucky the third time :-?
If I'm lucky, then I'll teach everyone :))

DG> Defects, by the way, reduce the service life of the drive heads,

IMHO, the heads don't care - the floppy disk gets more. But, in principle, most can withstand 500-1000
reading normally (I checked it myself :)) And this
is enough even for a multi-level game.

As soon as I think about it - scratching again - the mood goes to zero :(( And if you lose 3.5" disks, learn to scratch, and then, lo and behold, the hard drive :)

10 Jun 97 19:10 -- Igor Gruzdev told Sergei Novikov about Discussion:

SN>> PS: And if the idea of collecting monthly contributions for the development of ZX goes through,
SN>> then you can get material satisfaction from ZH-2.

IG> Bring ZH-2 to Inlight, and sell with autographs - you will
IG> material and moral satisfaction. ;)

So, they brought Special Forces to that Inlight - they could have given it away as a demo version.

With warm greetings, Slava.

10 Jun 97 03:14 -- Yury Matveyev told Sergei Novikov about Discussion:

YM> play a real-time strategy in a 3 by 3 or 4 by 4 square... There was no time and
YM> there was no room left for all this...

Yura, share your experience :))

/skip/

YM> Who will write the software and for what money? Actually, we are going in circles...

IMHO, in your team the matter was handled too honestly - if four people did it, then the money would be shared equally among four. Where did you see that? :))

Warm greetings, Slava.

EM>> What a miracle. :)) If only there were sectors with numbers greater than
EM>> #F5...

DG> 2VM - That was a good idea! Even Sok failed ;) (Well, now he will begin
DG> to prove (after a dozen hacks) that they are not fools either ;-)
I’m not going to prove anything to you - it’s absolutely useless. But, here
if you delve a little into the conversation, you will see that we talked about
_copying_non-standard_sectors_ _ON_SPECTRUM_.

AM>>> in a day,
EM>> Well, with the help of one special copyist this can be done in 5
EM>> minutes.
DG> Which is written in a day or two or a week.
But it is universal.

Good luck! Evgeny.

AR> Yes? Or maybe it’s your lack of professionalism
What are you talking about???!!!! They teach the whole Union. “I explained and explained, until everything became clear to myself...”. :))))

[.....]

Good luck! Evgeny.

It’s quiet outside the window, and I’m sitting and writing a response to a letter written from Sergei Novikov to
Yury Matveyev Mon Jun 09 1997 at 16:25...

YM>> I, perhaps, with some reservations, am ready (there’s nothing special to do in the summer anyway) ;)
SN> Well, the script is written at the beginning, in the first month. The rest of the time, the screenwriter has nothing special to do - you can cut your salary to 2 rubles a month
SN> ;)))))) Will you go? There's nothing to do in the summer anyway
SN> ;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Let him write music. ;)

With all kinds of regards and wishes.
Igor.

... How easy it is to be fair when there is nothing to share.

On a frosty day, June 11, 1997, at 12:24,
Alexey Ivanov wrote a letter to Alex Mikhailov:

SN>>> What to do with underground BBS???

AM>> hmm... do such things really exist? if bbs
AM>> is not on the bbs list, then this is not a station, but just a
AM>> person pumping toys to several
AM>> of his friends. even if

AI> Alex has delusions of grandeur ;)

why is that?

AI> Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

Best wishes, Arno from Omega group.

On a frosty day, June 10, 1997, at 14:35,
Igor Gruzdev wrote a letter to Sergei Novikov:

IG> Show me a sysop who would refuse a new product for free? ;)

and the user? ;) another thing is that _real_ sysops
if they are asked, they will not post it on the board.

IG> With all kinds of regards and wishes.
IG> Igor.

Such a copier has existed for a long time: SOFTCOPY ver 1.3.
The most important thing in it is the choice of format for copying, but if you don’t want to find it, then there is the AUTOCOPY option.
Today it can copy any format used on SPECCY format.
But not everyone can format it yet :-(
And it uses extended memory (PROFI, ATM, SCORPION, #7FFD)

EM>> Good luck ! Evgeny.

DG> Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

DG> -+- GoldED/386 3.00.Alpha5+
DG> + Origin: * ON-LINE newspaper * (2:5020/689.31)

So I got to FIDO

That’s all /Sergey.
With a large wagon of registers and vouchers.
(Pickup from the SVERDLOVSK-SORTING wagon #659839002)

DG>> to the program.

VM> I think that it will not be possible to hide it - which means there is no need to do this, but
VM> we need to go a different route. I went twice, but, you know, it was somehow not successful
VM> :) Maybe the third time I’ll be lucky :-? If you're lucky, then I'll teach everyone
VM> :))

You're wrong ;) Don't think that the cracker is dumber than you and won't figure out your
original plan. What distinguishes a good hacker from a mediocre one is the ability to understand the program as well as the author. But the fact that a hacker is much less hardworking and patient, and also the fact that he usually does not receive money or, often, recognition for his work is practically an axiom. In other words, it’s more likely that a hacker’s patience will run out than he will stumble upon something inaccessible to his understanding
;) This is where you “hit” - count on the elementary laziness of the cracker, because hiding the code is easier and faster than digging it up. Of course, it will be hacked, but later
than usual, since not in one approach...

VM> Just when I think about it - scratch again - the mood is zero :(( And if you lose
VM> you also learn how to scratch 3.5" disks, and then, look, there's a hard drive :)

:-)))

VM> The number can have 10-20 digits, respectively the same number maybe
VM> checking procedures (even more). IMHO, the method is better than scratching,

After the hacker finds the first 2-3, he will beknow the code and
habits of the author so well that the rest will be found on their own...

VM> if not for the feedback problems :(

Unsolvable problems, in my opinion...

EM> Come on ???? And who is stopping them from making it better, rather than using a slightly modified MicroProtector for
EM> for two years already???!!!

Good protection costs either good money or a lot of time. There is no point in spending either one or the other just because of one number. Agree? Then the topic is closed.

Hasta la vista, Evgeny! See you in Eden!

·∙ Novikov Sergei AKA Spirit/CS [Team ZX ASM] ∙·

SN>>> I don’t know. In Agaev's version, it's better not to see ugly sprites, and
SN>>> "animation" - even more so.
DG>> You should just scold ;) KB2 is the best of all kb-like games :)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EM> "For taste and color..." In terms of graphics, KV2 is inferior to "Country".

No one argued about the graphics (read better). It was a question of comparison on all points. And the playability of KB2, for example, is very high.

AR> But you really need help, otherwise it’s all just words.

=) I wonder why “we really” need help? :)

AR> + Origin: -= Speed ​​Co. Creative Hackers Group =- (2:5057/18.46)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!! Wow!!! Cool!!!

Hasta la vista, Dr.Death/SCCHG!

AM> so it’s too early for you to sign me up for lamers, break POSPROT1 in STS3.3, and
AM> better than POSPROT2 in STS5.0 ;)

Can’t POSPROT2 be in the echo - look at the hunt?

Hasta la vista, Andrey! See you in Eden!

The point is not what we do, but the fact that you cannot help us.

AR> With the best wishes.
AR> Alex Rybinskiy AKA DR.DEATH / SPEED CO.'97 / XTM

Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

DG> Hmm. But you need to study consistently. After all, you first graduated from school
DG> and then from college, and not vice versa. If you think that in this case,
DG> you have already completed the “school”, then why did the two previous attempts fail?

I answer in order:
1. As hacker Chris said to himself: “The ability to remove protection does not mean
the ability to install it.” As an illustration - a logic game from Virtual bros ;)
2. About UFO-1 - well, I haven’t had to deal with hackers before, I
really didn’t expect that there were hack monsters among them. Nevertheless
the protection lasted for more than a month and a half :)) Few people can boast that they
removed it :) IMHO, Chris yes DR.
3. About UFO-2 - in v2.00 there was simply _no_ protection (in my understanding :), because
it was buggy in advance ;) However, the number of kits sold exceeded
a certain critical mass (>400), and In general, protection for 2.10 was not needed.
The first 160 sets of v2.10 were completed only with a check for damaged
sectors. And only then was protection added for June, which was quickly followed by more than one galaxy of UFO-2 hackers :))
To Chris's credit, he did not distribute his hack himself. As reported incognito from
Ukraine, this hack was sent by John Stunner for $20 to the notorious Jokerand from there I went to Moscow (by the way, the interval was 4 months). However, once again, only the lazy won’t break UFO-2 (I broke it myself a long time ago :)) And you, it seems, promised for
$500 (see videotape Enlight'96)
4. I won’t threaten severe protection for the CV :)) I’ll do it as best I can. Well, one of the
cool methods of protection is the release of an allegedly already broken
version to a proprietary version with the inscription, for example, “Cracked by MKHG”, strewn with glitches (2AI: FFC will immediately
buy for this? :))

DG> I hope this conversation is not unpleasant for you?

It’s unpleasant, but...

Although another idea was born on how an honest programmer can make money a lot
of money. You need to make bets in advance for large sums of dollars on how long his protection will last - 1 hour, 2 hours, ... a day. (YM, take it into service :))

Warm greetings, Slava!

They once said:

VM> Although another idea was born, how an honest programmer can
VM> earn
VM> a lot of money. It is necessary to make bets in advance for large sums of dollars on how long his protection will last - 1 hour, 2 hours, ... a day. (YM, take
VM> weapons :))

Hackers should not be given incentives. Otherwise, hacks on a commercial basis will deprive
the authors of that part of the profit that they now have.

══════ All the best! Yupiy ════════════

Sat 14-Jun-97 20:08, Sergei Novikov (2:5020/689.1) wrote a letter to Evgeny
Milun:

SN> Good protection costs either good money or a lot of time. There is no point in spending either one or the other
SN> because of one number.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And because of twenty? I remember that I honestly broke numbers up to the sixth or seventh number myself
(by the way, I broke it almost for free - as a shadow job ;) then I started using the services of a very good opener program (by that time it was almost six months old). After this, all that remained was to bring the catalog into human form for copying by files. IMHO, it was initially clear that after a maximum of three
issues they would write an opener, especially since in those days the fashion was for openers
;)

With best wishes, Vladimir.

Sun 15-Jun-97 03:27, Vyacheslav Mednonogov (2:5030/362.4) wrote a letter
Dmitry Grigoryev:

VM> Pentagons, one for the Pros :) It’s easier with Scorpios - there is a serial number.

And twin brothers - unbranded scorpions.

[...]

VM> 2. About UFO-1 - well, I didn’t have to deal with hackers before
VM> this, I really didn’t expect that there were monsters among them
VM> hack. Nevertheless, the protection lasted for more than a month and a half :)) Few
VM> who can boast that they removed it :) IMHO, Chris yes DR.

MK even earlier - at my home. I remember Antony/TMG was present at this. Then
MK took the disks home, then a rumor spread that Chris had broken it, so in general it became a problem to bring the hack into an acceptable form. Although it was broken normally, almost
100%, all that remained was to fix it.

VM> 3. About UFO-2 - in v2.00 there was simply _no_ protection (in my understanding
VM> :), because it was buggy in advance ;) However, the number of
VM> kits sold exceeded a certain critical mass (>400), and
VM> protection for 2.10 was generally not needed. The first 160 sets of
VM> v2.10 were completed with only a check for damaged sectors. And only
VM> then protection was added for June, into which
VM> more than one galaxy of UFO-2 burglars were quick to fall in line :)) To Chris’s credit, he himself did not
VM>distributed his hack.

Although almost on the second day he studied the product ;) Actually, all two days he was
looking for protection and was perplexed ;)

VM> As reported incognito from Ukraine, this hack was sent by John Stunner
VM> for $20 to the well-known Joker and from there it went to Moscow (by the way
VM> the interval was 4 months).

I sent MaxI a branded one (issued by you) within a week. He hacked it for his own pleasure, but swore that he would not distribute the hack.

VM> However, once again, only the lazy would not break UFO-2

The situation in St. Petersburg was very favorable. Even Death didn't sell a hack! ;)

With best wishes, Vladimir.

VM> This must be a very, very good hacker. There are no such people yet :]

Yes? ;) I once called on hackers to distribute the “original” along with the restored version of the program... In vain they didn’t listen :( You are a game maker and are well acquainted
with the structure of games, I mean, you understand that not everything is as simple as it looks in the book “How to make a game on the Spectrum yourself” (or whatever it was called). How do you think a bad or mediocre hacker can add a section of the route in the race, complete a few labyrinths, speed up the toy by rewriting the output on two
screens, and “simply” restore the game algorithm? Look at Lemmings, remixed
RST7 and Monty Piton, restored by Titus; Sample Tracker and
Captain Blood, rewritten by me, you probably saw in the latest Spectrophones.
Or did you not see these programs in the original one? form?

In addition, do not forget that when the game is made, there is not much
much strength or desire left for protection, the game is already ready, promised by Monday... You yourself admit
that you added protection as sales progressed.

VM> This method is usually expressed - “put 100-200 xorks, maybe
VM> the hacker
VM> will get tired of it and he will stop breaking my program” <- harmful consequences
VM> of N. Rodionov’s ideology.

Rodionov is absolutely right, naturally, those ksorki that he had in him.Apparently, now they won’t even save you from a teapot with Scorpio. But even in our time there are ways
to force a hacker to spend hours tracing xorks, and this can really easily
get boring. Especially if, apart from sporting interest, the hacker has no other incentives. But if the game, due to distortions with the disk format, refuses to run on a hacker's computer... then nothing will save it, even if 90% of it consists of xorks ;) Of course, if xorka turns out to be very long, then they will look for other ways to remove it, except for stupid tracing, but this will also take time, especially if the author has provided for the use of well-known methods like Scorpio,
Majik buttons, emulators on other platforms...

By the way, I wasn’t just talking about “hiding” verification procedures. but also that
they need to be “tied” as firmly as possible to the entire program or to the most
difficult to change areas of the program. For example, the sector numbers
on the disk are taken by the loader from the hero's sprites or the algorithm codes for his
behavior. You provided for calculating the checksum of a section of UFO2 codes - a good method, but the sum had to be at least three bytes. One byte
is simply balanced.

AM> and the user? ;) another thing is that _real_ sysops,
AM> if they are asked, will not post it on the board.

But a fake sysop of a fake BBS that is not part of the network will post it!
What can I say... Will a real sysop refuse to accept from the user
a new product with broken protection? Or will he keep the real one for himself and not give it to others?

AM> Best wishes, Arno from Omega group.

Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

Sat 14 Jun 1997 00:52, Alex Mikhailov wrote to Alexey Ivanov:

AM> BBC piracy. Here it is not thriving,
AM> let’s just say it doesn’t exist at all. and there are no underground
AM> bbsoks. and users don’t have lists.
AM> and to listen to you, it’s all so bad.

It’s not bad, it’s great! But you can’t keep everything under your control.
(Save it to a file and we’ll discuss it in a year...)

AI>> Yes, it’s not a node, but it’s a STATION, it’s a
AI>> but a hack-oriented BBS. And there are more than 50 of these,
AI>> unpublished ones on the PC, for example, in Moscow
AI>>... you can’t call them...

AM> we are talking about Spectrum and Speck networks.
AM> what does the PC have to do with it?

Similarly on Speck.

AM>>> we haven’t even had to fight yet -
AM>>> we didn’t have them and don’t have them. young people
AM>>> take an example from experienced sysops, and old people
AM>>> have never set a bad example.

That’s it, I’m repeating myself for the last time and won’t get involved in this discussion anymore.
Are you the _experienced_ sysop? Actually, that’s correct... users are conducting experiments on you.

I propose that the word “Sysop” be considered abusive and in this echo considered offtopic.

AM> thanks for the kind words. I
AM> wish them to quickly eradicate piracy from
AM> themselves, and they wish us
AM> that it will appear in our country as soon as possible. and
AM>then Alex Ivanov will be pleased
AM> that Alex Mikhailov was wrong. just
AM> full of rules. :(

I won’t be happy with piracy. It’s just that you take on a lot and on your own behalf
speak for the whole city, as if there is no one there except you...

Where is the new address directory? Why don’t you answer letters? And you write to the echo from
different nodes? Have you become a badass?

AI>> experienced sysop - this is who 6 months
AI>> station on Vikomka contains?

AM> for three months. and the modem does not play a role.

... when a _real_ sysop plays on the momed?

AM> two appeared. One closed in a week.
AM> the second - rather because of a fundamental rejection
AM> of the Charter, she didn’t like something there.

The free BBS is not tied to the Charter...
Freeloaders are tired: new ones are downloaded and they don’t download anything... we know...

AM> yeah, and we, too, are afraid of the attacks,
AM> we’ll all start piracy too...

I’m against piracy! I don’t want to attack you with all of the above, I don’t have such a goal! you are building a _real turkey_.

AI>> The younger generation
AI>> 13-15 years old will come and create their own network, independent of
AI>> yours, with gates in both the Internet and FIDO.
AI>> And you can’t do anything with them.

AM> and someone with themwas he going to do something?

Here is a philosophical question for everyone: What awaits Spectrum in the next three years?

My _personal_ opinion:

- young people who are now 9-14 years old, having learned to code, will go to a PC or Amiga;
and will not remember the Spectrum anymore.

- we will enjoy the branded products and use emulators, etc. - it doesn’t matter,
but there is no change! And Sprinter won’t help here... We’ll grow old and die... and no one will remember our beloved computer anymore, which gave humanity so many cool programmers, gamemakers, musicians...
...yes, you say, a pessimist... But this is the current reality.
No matter how you prove to someone that Spectrum is cool for beginners, that there are networks, there are free e-mail on the INTERNET - everyone buys Stump for some reason:(

You can prolong the agony in one way: whoever has a 48th Spec - give it to
_children_ of acquaintances or friends! If you buy a Sprinter - give your old
Pentagon-128! A person who has encountered the Spectrum since childhood will never forget about
it (and if he buys pisyuk - will install an emulator).

The latest news - TITUS is going to write a Spectrum emulator on the Amiga.

AM> Best wishes, Arno from Omega group.

Best regards, Alexey Ivanov

SN>>> On the contrary, slowly. I remember I passed in 25 minutes, without any
SN>>> description ;))
AL>> It’s hard to believe!
SN> And rightly so. You can’t complete it with a description in so much time.

I completed it in a week and a half, under constant hints
Max.

With respect, Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

15 Jun 97 15:53, Vladimir Larkov reported by Vyacheslav Mednonogov about {Discussion}:

VL> The situation in St. Petersburg was very favorable. Even Death didn’t trade a hack!
VL> ;)

He didn’t trade anything at all - a penalty for the first :)
But the fact that viKS resisted temptation for four months is just a mystery (or
he didn’t have a hack? :))
In short, it was a golden time - a green street!

With warm greetings, Glory!

15 Jun 97 22:41, Dmitry Grigoryev wrote to Vyacheslav Mednonogov:
[...]
DG> Then it all comes down to incentives to justify such a tedious
DG> hacking. “Good” incentives are the inoperability of the program
DG> on some machines
How tired I am of this “incentive”, is it really not possible to do it in the program
Config, as for example in the “Brain Crash” demo, substituted the necessary values
and the brakes and glitches disappeared...
Actually, I’ve been a little lately I’m lazy to hack, but if I come across a
program that doesn’t work because it was written for some version of Speck,
and in addition I liked it (which happens extremely rarely), then
I won’t leave this program alone.
So there is only one conclusion -
When the program (game) written, it is necessary to carry out its full
testing on different versions of Speccy, and if everything is OK, then hang
on the health of the protection (without glitches), for example, I won’t get into it, I’m too lazy if the program works.
I have some UFO-2 lying around on a floppy disk, just like that they brought it,
we should look at what version of the hack it is, and who hacked it.
2WM: Aren’t you interested in what kind of hack came to me?
And the recommendation is to make a config in the CV for different hardware, IMHO
keeping a *.cfg file at the end of the disk is not such a problem, if you write software,
then like the bourgeoisie, with setup_om and saving the configuration.

Withthe best...
Oleg

... Oh, if only one god called: “Believe me!” - and not “Believe in me!”

AI> Latest news - TITUS is going to write a Spectrum emulator on
AI> Amiga.

Already writing in full!!!

VL> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
VL> And because of twenty? I remember honestly breaking numbers up to numbers six or seven myself.

Do you think it’s possible to make protection that will be broken for years? Any new
protection will be quickly broken, and by the next issue, hackers will have experience
breaking the previous one and utilities for this. I also did the “anti-microprotector”
for about a day, after which all the programs protected by this method simply
“clicked”, at most I had to slightly change the cracker to the new version of the
microprotector.

So for twenty numbers you need to make twenty completely different protections. For
a magazine with one coder/technical editor, this is too much...

[missed...]

VL> it is clear that after a maximum of three issues they will write an opener, especially
VL> especially since in those days the fashion was for openers ;)

Well, at that time it was a strong defense ;) Stronger, in any case, not it was.
And now... All electronic protections have lost their meaning. In the last year or two there hasn't been a single job that took more than one day. Only ULO2 made me scratch my head, and even then... I won’t say who, but in Moscow they simply copied it
on the Amiga, filling the sectors that should have been scratched with a floating bit
or some other plug unreadable by the Spectrum, after which the game on the same Amiga
was copied “with a whistle.”Any development of electronic protection (such as increasing
track recording density, non-standard formatting, etc.) will lead to
the general unreadability of such floppy disks, which is unacceptable for an electronic magazine that still does not forget about users 48.

Only properly organized mechanical protection makes sense, but, firstly,
a more accurate determination of the damaged sector will again lead to unreadability
by some controllers, and secondly, it will raise the price or cost of the magazine.

There were attempts... At the beginning of the year, Titus was ordered to develop a protection, there was an idea
to make expensive stickers (I almost drew them), to hold a lottery...
But Titus “made” the protection for three months, the stickers turned out to be too expensive, and
the question of a lottery disappeared on its own, due to doubts about the appearance Spectrophone 23 (or 24,
if this number is double)

In addition, it makes sense to distribute a reliably protected number in ready-made kits. Giving a copier to a trader is the same as putting it in
an appendix to a magazine (let distributors not be offended, but they don’t work alone).
Copying hundreds of discs yourself...

In short, what makes sense for a game, hoping to earn a few thousand
dollars on it, is too much for a periodical magazine. Well, why should we sell two discs with SPF
22/23 for 40-50 thousand?

VL> With best wishes, Vladimir.

Regards, Dmitry(OLDMAN).

Sun 15-Jun-97 21:17, Alexey Ivanov (2:5020/689.100@FidoNet) wrote a letter
Alex Mikhailov:

AI> Latest news - TITUS is going to write a Spectrum emulator on the Amiga.

This news was with a long beard back on the E95 ;)

With best wishes, Vladimir.

Monday June 16, 1997 11:30, Oleg Bashtenko wrote to Dmitry Grigoryev:

OB> So there is only one conclusion -
OB> When a program (game) is written, it is necessary to conduct its full
OB> testing on different versions of Speccy, and if everything is OK, then hang
OB> on health protection (without glitches), for example, I won’t get into it, I’m lazy if the program is

[missed...]

How to do this? There are so many clones, and everyone connects drives as they wish... For example, in Kharkov it is quite difficult to find Scorpio. And in
St. Petersburg - Pentagon or Profi.

OB> With the best...
OB> Oleg

Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

Friday June 13, 1997 13:13, Sergey Kovinov wrote to Dmitry Grigoryev:

SK> Such a copier has existed for a long time: SOFTCOPY ver 1.3.
SK> The most important thing in it is the choice of format for copying, but if you don’t want it
SK> find out, that is, the AUTOCOPY option. Today it can copy
SK> any format used on SPECCY. But not every
SK> can format it yet :-( And it uses extended memory (PROFI, ATM, SCORPION, #7FFD)

Can it, for example, read a sector with number #F5, and write with number
#05?

SK> That's all. /Sergey.

Regards, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

Sunday June 15 1997 00:23, Andrey Mihaylow ─── Evgeny Milun:

EM>> Well then, I must disappoint you. There are a lot of people who
EM>> specialize in games (why go far, for example, here in the echo and
EM>> Mednonogov and Gudkov),
AM> Sorry, I didn’t know that they only feed their family with this.
“Only this” - Spectrum? They won't feed you. But, as far as I know, for them
programming on the Spectrum is already akin to a “second job.”

EM>> and a slightly smaller bunch specializing in
EM>> protections as such.
AM> And what’s the use of such protections, their writing to breaking ratio
AM> is lame (100:1) ?
The main thing is that there are people who specialize in creating protections.

EM>> Forward, forward, but without a special program you still can’t
EM>> copy it.
AM> Well, that’s the kicker, but in general we have full-track copiers for almost
AM> all ZX users, well perhaps with the exception of cassette players ;)
It’s one thing when you have to resort to the services of a copier, transferring
to the receiver disk not only information, but also the numbers and sizes of sectors, and another thing when almost any file...

AM>>> What do you mean by this, if we removed the check for two
AM>>> sectors, then someone did something visuallywill notice.
EM>> I was talking about transferring to a TR-DOS disk.
AM> What's the point? Should I push it into the emulator?
Convenience of copying.

EM>> It’s just that some protections break easily, while others are
EM>> quite difficult. In particular, in SPF it is enough to dissolve the body, and
EM>> remove the check,
AM> I hasten to disappoint you, in ZXF it is almost the same, but 2 hours longer.
AM> (you need to dissociate the body and remove two checks).
Okay, let's go.

AM> Sincerely, Andy Man\PoS\PCCC
AM> PS. In general, we would gladly pay a percentage (5%-20%) to the authors of the games or their
AM> representatives, but the figure will be so ridiculous that they won’t believe us.
AM> (20-60 tr.)
Well, why won’t they “believe” right away? :))) For example, I will believe it.

Good luck! Evgeny.

AI> Amiga.

Already writing and not only TITUS. Maybe working versions will appear by ENLIGHT'97. In
RU.AMIGA, writing emulators is actively discussed. It is expected that the Amiga
will have the most accurate emulator ZX SPECTRUM 48/128 + TR-DOS + AY... There is a beta
version of the VK emulator, soon there will be a normal one.

Vladimir Bogdanovitch.

Once upon a time, specifically Monday June 16, 1997 at 12:47 pm Evgeny Milun
wrote by Sergei Novikov:

[skip]

EM> Besides. As far as I know, even the _FIRST_ number of SPF was already
EM> protected by “purchased” protection. Since then (from the 1st to the 21st issue) this
EM> defense has undergone only _MINOLIZABLE_ changes. Attention, now
EM> the question (still the same) - _WHAT_ prevented the SPF editors from taking a more serious (and not
EM> at the level of their “reflections”) approach to the problem of protecting the magazine?

It all depends on who we are protecting from.
If protection is needed so that the USER does not copy the program, it will do _any_
that cannot be copied by _standard_ copiers.
If from a professional hacker, not a single protection will help.
The cost of _professional_ protection of _serious_ software for serious machines
can be up to 15% (!!!) of the cost of the entire development, sometimes hundreds of thousands of
dollars!

At the moment, only two options for reliable protection are implemented.

1. Hardware (built into the hardware) key. For a program it is a
black box with an input and an output. Accordingly, in the operation of expensive programs, the key
is actively _used_ (and not just checked), in particular, it works as
a transcoding memory or a counting device. Remove such protection_very_
hard.

2. Network. An example is Kali95, a program for playing toys over the Internet. It
can be registered on the local machine, but what will be the use of this if
registration is checked on a _server_, where it cannot be reached?
If this method is correctly implemented, it is imho the best in terms of the combination of simplicity
and reliability. But, unfortunately, it can be used _only_ for programs
that _need_ a connection to a _specific_ server to work, otherwise there is no point in
protection.

None of these methods work on Zx - alas...
Accordingly, there can be no talk of _reliable_ protection.

P.S. At one time, it took from two minutes to three
days to break protected programs. Now, due to the advent of emulators, shadow monitors and sophisticated
copiers, it would be reduced by almost five.

With respect, Tim. [Team AMD - Amiga Must Die]
[Team Aries Rulez Forever]

17 Jun 97 12:27, Dmitry Grigoryev wrote to Oleg Bashtenko:
[...]

DG> How to do this? There are so many clones, and everyone
DG> connects disk drives as they want...
Yes? Can you be more specific, I know only one controller -
"Beta-Disk Interface", are there really other options?
I know about MIO-Card, and that doesn't count.

Oleg

... Beautiful lie? Attention! This is already creativity.

Friday June 06 1997 23:19, Yury Matveyev ─── Evgeny Milun:

I'm throwing it again. It seems that that message did not reach YM.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[.....]
YM> I wonder how you can write ZH-2 too,
YM> being so far away? Theoretically, I, of course, imagine, practically
YM> - the process may take a long time...
[.....]
I repeat once again, we are ready to help you!!!!!!! It is better to let the process “take longer” than to “stop completely.” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't want to deal with me personally, or with our group, fine. But
you said that you have a problem with the artist. We have a good artist in Samara and he wants to help you.
Your right to check him. Give me an idea about a picture for ZH2. He will draw this picture, and then you will be able to appreciate him. Perhaps it will suit you.

Good luck! Evgeny.

DG> Well, at that time it was a strong defense ;) In any case, it wasn’t stronger than
DG>. And now...
BYTEMARE'96 saw ?
DG> All electronic protections have lost their meaning. In the last
DG> year or two there has not been a single job that would have taken more than one day.
Well, this one takes several days. And this is on Scorpa with the ability to unload memory.
DG> Only UFO2 made me scratch my head, and even then... I won’t say who, but
DG> in Moscow they simply copied it on the Amiga, filling the sectors that should
DG> be scratched with a floating bit or some other unreadable Spectrum
DG> gag, after why the game on the same Amiga was copied “with a whistle”.
We are talking, as far as I remember, about _SPECTRUM_.

[.....]

DG> Only properly organized mechanical protection makes sense,
But for _this_ - _MUST SHOOT_. Normal mechanical protection that does not
damage the drive head can only be done using special equipment.
As far as I know, no one has this equipment.

[.....]

DG> There were attempts... At the beginning of the year, the development of protection was ordered for Titus, there was
DG> the idea to make expensive stickers (I almost drew them), to carry out lottery...
DG> But Titus “did” the defense for three months,
And, fortunately, he didn’t? I know his methods -non-standard use of
interrupts as jumps. There’s a little something wrong with the duration/duty factor
of the interrupt request pulses, and... that’s it... :(

[.....]

Good luck ! Evgeny.

/skip/

DG> was called). Do you think a bad or mediocre hacker
DG> can add a section of the track in a race, complete a few labyrinths, speed up the
DG> toy by rewriting the output onto two screens, and “simply” restore
DG> the game algorithm?

So Ivan Gudkov abandoned his unfinished project. When I see it completed
by the hands of some hacker, I will believe that he figured it out “no worse than the author” :)

While the hands of hackers are just suffocating the Spectrum - how many good
initiatives there were and they all went to waste, how many projects were frozen for fear of
excessive hacker zeal :((

There was a sentence here - “good hackers need their feet bow,
then they (maybe) won’t break anything." IMHO, they just didn’t crush them in
their time :(

And as an example, here recently a “hacker-anarchist” (stalwarker) who wasn’t crushed in his time appeared - a typical representative :)

With warm greetings, Glory!

Once upon a time, specifically Monday June 16, 1997 at 10:28 AM Alex Letaev
wrote Alexey Ivanov:

AL> Perhaps sysops are divided into two types:
AL> 1. An honest sysop will try to attract users to his BBS her
AL> good work, fresh information and online newspapers, work with
AL> mail, etc.

And how many of these do you think there will be?

AL> 2. Another sysop will attract people with pirated versions of new programs,
AL> hacks, etc. (in this case, the following situation is possible: everyone shouts:
AL> “piracy is bad!”, but everyone knowing such a BBS (considering that he knows
AL> it’s almost alone) will not download the new one, and then throw a message at
AL> BBS of the 1st type about how bad it is to distribute broken software!!!!)
AL> :-))))) From which it follows that both sysops will be popular with
AL> the corresponding circle of users.

imho with all circles of users.