RIP #13 01 января 2001

Chat - arguments about hackers

(C) Ars


  Many many years ago, when CDs were still large and flexible
and virtual reality so remote, there lived
Small Sinclair. And he loved very beautiful floppy with color
labels and envelopes Rospisnoy. And he ran them to the post 
office with money in his teeth and came back happy and 
satisfied. No, perhaps for the tales, it is to Werewolves'u:) 
Though, I confess, having re-read this leaflet now two years 
old, I thought that tale "Brothers Grimm" could pull, if only 
journalism little fix:) But the more this is irrelevant, but may

coma and interesting:) The only pity is that most of the 
correspondence destroyed: / 

  Starring: AA-Ars, DG-Oldman, MV-Max Piwamoto.


  Let's answer a question-who is to blame for all of today's
Spectrum woes: the phasing out of projects, reluctance of 
authors to undertake for new games, care for pc, no novya? 
Hackers say? 

MV> Sure they are;)

Yes, the hackers. "To blame the hackers", it has become 
axiomatic. As then zx.spectrum even heard such a radical idea, 
they say must be All hackers to gather in one place and to 
eliminate;) Many of today's proposals to combat piracy 
especially repulsed by this, but quite friendly, hostile 
otnosheniya.No ought to understand that hacking and piracy, it 
is still very different things!


MV> imho hackers in its pure form to sinter at all. Not that
specificity.
DG> Crackers, restorery, localizers, adaptatory Finally, the 
hard-bitten Journalists, spin ksorki to find and publish brand 
cheats - it's all (but not all) hackers. 


  Why do hackers break? Let's look at all of the major reasons 
for this: 


  1) Hacking, is a hobby. Hacking program is the same
game, like solving a puzzle. The hacker just wants to find an 
answer all the questions get to the truth. He can not live 
peacefully, while elsewhere there is protection, it is not 
subject. 

  2) Hacking is a sport, Competitions umov.Hakerami driven by 
vanity, the desire to feel at least somewhat:) smarter than the 
author, put the protection or to show their superiority over 
other In other hackers. Hackers can break down at the request 
of fellow users, on dispute, either in teaching lamer.


  3) hackers are driven by selfish goals. Hacker distributes 
and sells software, or performs a commercial order for trader, 
that is a financial incentive (not necessarily in the form of 
money, such as beer;) 

  4) A hacker does "retaliation." Breaking the program, he aims 
to strike a blow on the author, insulted his feelings. 

MV> 5) When there is nothing to do.
DG> Frivaru also do the same occasion then:) When do
nothing-that is, when there is free time to earn money:)
MV> Well, or for self;)
DG> Well, Max, you break just for fun?
MV> Certainly yes ;)))))))


  Hacking is not a disease, which can be izlechit.Esli can be as
it is hoped to eradicate hacking by people in uniform or
on the contrary, quite bald:), then the maximum of what can be 
achieved, it is external and visible victories: the control of 
markets, networks, conducting show trials with criminal and 
administrative liability, physical violence, etc. Life shows 
that this is the victory of law, is likely to be defeated. 
Hackers (as well as any other professionals) well-developed 
sense of solidarity, the greater the impact will be caused by 
hackers, the stronger the impact. In fact, it is expressed in 
the transition of hackers category 1 and category 2 to category 
4. When Hacking will not be the only remedy for idleness or 
cause once again bend the fingers, as a matter of "duty", an 
act of support for its adherents, the consequences will not 
take long to wait. 

DG> By the way, can not be divided into categories? Not that I 
am for his fear;)

MV> A much afraid;)))
DG> Just what _vnutri_ one organization to share her
members? And, by the same ... I'm not talking about the 
possible feuds in this connection: (

MV> And without this will be an unorganized crowd. this is imho 
worse 


  Nevertheless, hacking programs, secure the position of 
copyright Law is prestupleniem.Poetomu not fight hackers nel

zya.Drugoe thing is that computer crime is a matter quite
new, and therefore, may prove the guilt of hacker unless 
grasping him in the act by attempting to sell a broken product.


MV> All selling compact in the markets - the hackers? ;)
AA> Nope, mostly pirates:)


  On the Spectrum as of today at all, even in principle 
impossible to sew a hacker to the relevant article. Case that 
here the author's products are not subject to protection under 
the law, as the authors themselves and traders, users and 
malicious nalogoneplatelschiki broken software worth several 
orders of magnitude greater than the size of a possible claim;) 


  And yet the situation Spectrum hackers in its own way is 
absolutely unique! Relation to hackers on the Spectrum, Amiga 
and PC differ! 

  On a PC, the word "hacker" in a simple user does not cause 
undue emotion. On PC hacking is _not_ litsa_ in mind already 
prescribed, that putting the show on the cover of the CD and 
click "I Agree" is one of common action to install the program, 
so that the nick sometimes wonder, poring over the book "Such a 
for dummies" why there is no such chapter.:) A call to any 
bebesku and download that, too, must all learn ... Generally, 
cracking programs on a PC unremarkable, to introduce themselves 
to hackers account to unite in a very large associations 
because the expense is not only on the number of burglaries, 
but the number of BBS, providing their 
rasprostranenie.Konechnomu user is completely up to give a damn 
about whose results: he uses - it does not care what this 
keygen, whose is Krakow - our Break games or foreign, 
importantly make sure somehow zainstallirovalos and running:) 
But though the PC is and other hackers - such as those engaged 
in russifikatsii games to him I have more sympathy, especially 
if they're doing it pro professionally. Anyway, it is not about 
etom.Na PC there is complete naplevatelstvo as hackers, and 
copyright law. 

MV> Hackers Russification did not do ... This is a separate 
issue. 


  On the Amiga, my impression is, hackers are on hand:)
As though anyone who has anything to do Amige.A if a hacker
not just something registered, but still something Russified
shaft, then he does almost become a living legend:)) That is,
to hackers on our Amiga attitude extremely 
dobrozhelatelnoe.Imho. 


  About the situation on the Spectrum all know, but somehow a 
little govo ryat.Otnoshenie to hackers on the Spectrum far 
neodnoznachno.S one hand, the hackers - it is one of the most 
respected people in the 

MV> They respect only the counterparts for the debugger, and 
very advanced users, and Usery until they do not care.


stage, on the other hand - this is the number one enemies of 
the Spectrum. 

MV> This is only for traders and too stupid software authors,
who expected to earn a few pounds $

The most interesting thing is that such polar opinions 
emanating from the one hand from the authors, on the other 
hand, representatives from the scene projected on users! 
Specifically, that for many users and hackers the author is 
tantamount to a source novya, so protest Hackers, he deprives 
himself of one, while maintaining a hacker, he loses 
drugogo.Ponyatnoe thing is that when a Krak, user obligations 
but they use it, although it is possible and will then truly 
sochu vstvovat author, so to speak experiencing mental 
anguish:) If all, well at least half:)) users would have been 
crystal-honest, hacking would not carry the threat, what it is 
today. Yes, a unit of honest users est.Dazhe on PC there is an 
official representation of Microsoft.;) Of course, all these 
phenomena are associated with a unique and compelling 
circumstances, alas, all learned how to count money, and with 
virtually none, freebie will always be more attractive to the 
user, and especially when presented with this freebie him on a 
platter. ;) 


  To reiterate, the hackers were the most famous people on 
stage, why is it so you can understand, because everything, 
absolutely everything today demomeykery and relizery, kakby it 
in more fun to say:) have been associated with transformation 
soles of the hack;)) Well, not for anyone not to be news that 
such DR, E-mage, PHT, XTM in the recent past were ordinary 
hacker gruppami.I if, say Nicodim twisted nothing better to do 
another Doom or something like that in retaliation, his catch 
and not be condemned:)) And other examples I can cite plenty of 

DG> %)))) Only it is not twisted, I bet, he saw his "code";)
MV> Nicodemus - a hacker;)))


  And yet, let's set aside jokes aside. My idea of ​​course
Paradoxically, but not to the same extent as the phrase 
"network prevent piracy;)) analyzed the current situation on 
the Spectrum, I found it interesting idea why salvation Ad 
ktruma not addressed by the hackers, since neither traders nor 
the authors nor nick did not want this? I am sure that hackers 
are now much easier to come together and find common ground 
than the traders or the author toram.Spektrum today is very, 
very weakened platform therefore, breaking the program, all the 
hackers, even the most egregious:)), should realize and 
understand that they are simply cutting down on bitches who 
sit! Disappear, vanish authors prog, nothing will break - and 
you Hackers will disappear, and with them, and Spectrum. 
Understand that you can not contradict common sense, I ask all 
Spectrum hackers to answer a simple question: "Do you like 
Speccy?" If not, then you obviously belong to the latter 
category: people who want to destroy the Spectrum. : (( 

MV> I love it but in Samara Spectrum killed me. At least very
this helped;)
DG> Gerostratova glory too comforting? ;)
MV> On one regret - not tan anything;)))

You probably think that I now take and call all the hackers
cease to engage in hacking programs in order to preserve the 
Spectrum? "Well, no, I'm not going to ask the impossible, and I 
myself would not agreed;) If a person really need to celebrate 
our natural needs of, he will do in any case and no 
prohibitions did not stop. On the contrary, I suggest that the 
hackers to unite their efforts and create conditions for the 
coexistence of all representatives of the scenes! Anyone who 
considers himself a professional in the field _istinnym_ 
hacking (both past and present) should support the 
establishment of hacker Union: SCL - Speccy Crackers League!


DG> SCL - a file format such that an extra confusion to what?
Maybe, SHL hacker league? On the other hand - an occasion to 
create a krakerskuyu and "alternativschiki" appear on the first

"Rogue" ...
MV> SCL. And why not TRD? :) Imho name was chosen 
unsuccessfully. AA> This is the first thing that came into my 
head - honest:) But what can be think better. Since?

MV> Can United Speccy Crackers?
DG> name is not important, they decided ...

You see, today the word hacker is so dirty, I'm very
pity that the word spekuliruyut.Hakerami today call themselves
those who have them and not nearly yavlyaetsya.Lyuboy who has 
learned a little Kolupaev program imagines himself hatskerom 
molecules. 

MV> In this stalker is to blame;) Without Cmca this would have 
happened. And in defenses almost anything interesting. No 
flight of ideas: (First was a stupid set ksorok. Then it is the 
same, plus some antiSTSny bug in plain view. In spidlokah was 
much interesting to dig. The only interesting defense of our -

DEMOMAC from Maxi. Then he looked dug in the first Oberon.
Maybe now something fun and there was, but I still do not
I know, because two years did not break. With the progressive 
people, we (Speed ​​Company) have personal contact so that I do 
not need breaking.

AA> compared with 91 the year after all the progress there and 
I do not think that all possibilities have been exhausted;)

DG> Well, turbodebager on pisishke not blame all the troubles, 
like;) MV> TD on the PC is similar to some MONS-3 Spectrum:)


Look how many there are today Hackers Group (I did
personally I do not have in mind;). But as Zhenya quipped in 
RIP # 9 to group name can be seen that this kind of group:) 
Anyway was, but the fact remains that today call themselves 
hackers many lamer. And these lamer and are guilty of

that the word hacker has lost prestige.

MV> People just do not know who is the attacker. To us all
Western games have come already broken (sometimes too broken: 
(). And by the time Russian software, which can be

break, literate people had gone to a more powerful platform. By
At least at home but there was a cake x86/amiga

This hacker must hate lamers, not avtorov.On not long
Women admit that its Krakow was used by lamer to raise their 
popularity or pirates for profit! Objective assessment of the 
hacker can only give a different hacker. Yes, hackers 
2-category to break his own popularity. But In my opinion, the 
recognition of the hacker elite is much more desirable 
assessment than the acquisition of a wide popularity among 
_neblagodarnyh_ users, consumers, freebies. 

MV> Well said, as many a tear kicks.
DG> What users to give our cracks? Authority is not enough?
MV> Chances of money. Three years ago UFO1 could well
earn.


   But whether all the hackers to be able to readily sacrifice 
their freedom to distribute its own Krakow? What were the 
chances? 

   I think the league can enter the hackers of all types (1-4)
if they are of course the fact deserve. Category 1 and 2 should 
in my opinion support the league with both hands - for them it 
will be clear acquisition. Hackers, traders will be in doubt. 
Prospect earn on their own keygen may be stronger

hacker solidarity (again, from the lack of money). But you can
necessary in any case will create an alternative. Firstly,
establish an active swapping - exchange frivaroy no secret that
hackers bonds is always greater than that of traders. Secondly 
you can try to establish commercial activities with the support

League: perform posing security programs on request,

MV> on the Spectrum is possible, if I did, and is the author.
AA> Of course, I pinned, but imagine a situation where two
choose the lesser evil:))
DG> Simply you can not prove the same glory Mednonogovu that
more than he know about Spectrum protection. I tried
believe me:) Even when you will break it very steep and 
crashproof;) MV> And it will not prove to anybody. I therefore 
such evidence, and not razvozhu. Eugene Miloon wanted to prove 
it STERovtsam ... The result of all izvesten.Ya would rather 
sing songs about the complicated and protection - the following 
software from this author will be easier to break;) 

provide traders disc tread with warranty
service;)) finally offers traders frivarnoe nove,
releases;))

MV> Tried ... In this and in the best years of not really a lot 
of money had. Especially releases;)

AA> Dyk surely the competition was:)

When a certain prestige league, it might even
earnestly suggest the authors test the software protection on 
the Reliability:). Hacker Terminator 4 th category (and even 
the 5 th!) also makes sense to join the league. If you need

IMMEDIATE RELEASE Krak will be justified (let's say,
author called a hacker lamer,

MV> So he was. Respectable people on these people is not
offense - that fool the author take?
DG> If you do not take offense - what's called a fool? ;) Fool 
in alone will not create a competitive game:) Just in humans

thinking is different;)
MV> But to call someone lamer ... This is dangerous. When I was
traversed in the first Oberon, people like these writers face 
stuff. True to the last moment decided to consult with me - so

Keladany alive;)

said that his defense no one will crack, or made such
any wrongdoing in relation to the hacker

MV> for such things not only bend break, but bone.

protection of the author was so weak that it could break
any, etc.), then a question about this may be brought before the
League.

If as a result of the voting will be obtained an absolute 
majority of votes, then this request is granted, moreover, the 
league takes full responsibility, in passing will explain the 
public the real reason kraka.Eto position is not a threat to 
authors because the league as time is going to fight without 
any reason Nogo harm to the authors, but for the rights of 
hacking it neobhodimo.Ezheli hacker goes against the majority 
decision, it vynuzhdet will leave the league forever, as it 
undermines avtoritet.Liga will then have to condemn such a 
hacker 

  For more democratic voting system in the league should take 
note account by the real weight of hackers in the league. 
Number of votes League party has determined its ranking, the 
number of points, which he acquired his work;) For the same 
reason, perhaps it makes sense to split the league Seniors and 
Members, that is, definition of a passing score, which allows 
to enter the elite league, which has some additional powers to, 
say, the right to modify this point:)) 

MV> In general, it is correct.
DG> Well, in general, unless the two steps. In this sense,
separation seems reasonable, other possible effects of I
mentioned above ...
MV> You can add a trial members - we do not all the way;)

When you join the league of hacker makes their luggage at
today. For accommodation Krakow seems to be used
ftp-server with password access, as well as FIDO-server with 
the right frekat a password.


MV> This spektrumista everyone has access to internet from 
home? BBS - it is more realistic.


Participants in the league should not allow penetration to them 
lamer, therefore, if the competence of the candidate calls from 
anyone questions, they will be asked:) However, members of the 
League may checking a real friend and a friend podkidyvaya 
respective tasks, say to delete someone's rating (you may 
receive negative points;))


   The League will inform the public about its activities
by Ehi on the Internet, to publish the current rating, etc.

MV> This is unnecessary. If a person did a lot - that it 
entered into the hall of fame and there mure;) to reduce the 
need for rating idleness.

AA> Duc now enforced idleness, the authors then specifically do 
not indulge : ~ (That is why it is necessary to them and help:))


In general, much more to tell, then I think the meaning is 
clear, else to think out together. In short, write about your

Intent and will break together:)

AA> Shl / And is there a general do you think are the chances? 
Or you might not DG> Odd, in my opinion, 80 percent, especially 
if raise the old-timers like me, Max Pivamoto;)

MV> what he does not like my nickname?
DG> and lured young doubters type Frolova or Roshchina:)
MV> then who will break something? ;)
AA> Yes, I think it's okay if some people will
break at the same time:))
DG> Ars ... shorter than ... will be in Moscow - I'll zalyu 
beer :-) MV> In Samara, too: *) If you need to support the 
noise in the press - Unbelievera harness. Well, if the 
organization does not hackers out, so at least a beer popem: *)

DG> Same thing:)


   And it came down to the usual drunk ... ;)