iron

VL>> Mouse - Kempston Mouse Interface - definitely.

FP> Why? Here in Kharkov, according to data from ZX-POWER,
FP> AY-MOUSE is very common. Is it really so difficult to make one for it? She is almost the same as

Your information is outdated. Ukraine recognized KEMPSTON MOUSE on ENLIGHT96 :)

FP> and Kempston. But IMHO don’t remember about the mouse via the serial port

And the AY mouse is not at all the same as KEMPSTON.

FP> it’s worth it - no one connects it like that. It is possible, of course, so, but why,
FP> if there is a standard, even two?

THERE IS ONE STANDARD. This is KEMPSTON MOUSE. I foresee your question: what is it
standard, I will answer: because it is 1. The most common 2. THERE ARE
BRANDED programs for it. The last factor is considered the main one.

Good Luck...

... "Beam me aboard, Scotty!"
"Aye, Cap'n! Uh, will a two-by-four do?"

MR> Your information is outdated. Ukraine recognized KEMPSTON MOUSE on
MR> ENLIGHT96 :)

But nevertheless, many people already have AY-MOUSE, and it has one plus - extreme
ease of connection.

MR> And AY mouse is not at all the same as KEMPSTON.

No big deal! There are only 2 differences. First, Kempston mouse does not reset, second
the ports are different. That's it.

MR> THE STANDARD IS ONE. This is KEMPSTON MOUSE. I foresee your question: why is
MR> it
MR> standard, I will answer: because it is 1. The most common 2. There are
MR> proprietary programs for it. The last factor is considered the main one.

I don’t argue. Kempston mouse is the standard and I respect that fact. But AY-MOUSE
also managed to become a standard. And I also take this into account.

FP> No big deal! There are only 2 differences. First - Kempston mouse does not reset,
FP> second - the ports are different. That's it.

Damn, have you seen KM? Apparently not. No need to talk then.
1. KM has 8 bit / axis vs 5bit / axis on the AY mouse.
2. You need to connect the music, which allows you to read from it, and for
KM - the presence of the music is purple, and leaves it for other needs.
3. in the AY mouse Quite a cunning driver, which can’t be said about KM

One range of counters is worth it!

FP> I don’t argue. Kempston mouse is the standard and I respect that fact. But
FP> AY-MOUSE also managed to become a standard. And I also take this into account
FP>

The mouse via joystick has become an even greater standard. So what?

Good Luck...

... Windows has a really stable Solitaire game!

Monday March 17 1997 17:38, Max Romanoff wrote to Fedin Pavel:

MR> A mouse through the joystick port - even easier to connect! You don't even need music
MR>! Yes, and on the AY mouse it seems like you need 8910...

Sorry, but as far as I read in the Spectrophone N20 about the Kempston mouse, it doesn’t connect to the
Campston port of the joystick... Or I didn’t understand something, explain,
please.

So long!

LP> Sorry, but as far as I read in the Spectrophone N20 about the Kempston mouse, it
LP> is not connected to the Kempston port of the joystick... Or I didn’t understand something,
LP> explain, please.

hehe... I was making a vicious joke... Eh, the youth have gone! Doesn't know the history at all :)

Good Luck...

... Amiga people do it better, also on PC ...

Thursday 31 August 1995 10:53, Fedin Pavel wrote to Vladimir Larkov:

[missing...]

FP> standardized. So, at the moment we have: Profi -
FP> graphic
FP> screen 512x240. Attributes based on the multicolor principle.
FP> A palette of 256 colors is possible.
FP> ATM - text screen 80x25, 16 colors from the palette 64.
FP> - Graphic screen 320x200. Each dot has its own color. 16 colors from
FP> palette 64.
FP> - Graphic screen 640x200. Attributes as on Profi. 16 colors from
FP> palette 64.

[missing...]

FP> this. There will be a little more compatibility. For example, the ATM version seems to me to be the most
FP> most rational - it has both a text
FP> screen and a good graphic one.

The Pro also has an extended text screen.

[missing...]

VL>> Mouse - Kempston Mouse Interface - definitely.

FP> Why? Here in Kharkov, according to data from ZX-POWER,
FP> AY-MOUSE is very common.

And in Moscow :)

FP> - no one connects it like that. It is possible, of course, so, but why, if there is
FP> a standard, even two?

Two standards...

Regards, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

Hello, Leonid!

Wednesday, March 19 97, 07:09, Leonid Potehin wrote to Max Romanoff on the topic
"Re: hardware":

[skipped]

MR>> A mouse via the joystick port - even easier to connect! You don't even need music
MR>>! Yes, and on AY Mays it seems like you need 8910...

LP> Sorry, but as far as I read in the Spectrophone N20 about the Kempston mouse, it does not
LP> connect to the Kempston joystick port... Or I didn’t understand something,
LP> explain, please.

Kempston Mouse and Mouse in Kempston port - two very big differences....

[skipped]

Pleasant connections.
Roman.

Friday, March 21, 97, already 11:44

... UI120:MNFIAKIHAAADGFXKGAEGDFHIHHMBBIPFLQAAOGKCHKF

LP>> it is not connected to the Kempston port of the joystick... Or am I missing something
LP>> understood, please explain.

MR> hehe... I was making a vicious joke... Eh, the youth have gone! MR doesn't know the history at all :)

I mean, Max wanted to say that there used to be a common mouse that plugged into a Kempston port and emulated a Kempston joystick. There was even an editor written for it - Mouse-Studio (a little poor, really)

With warm greetings, Slava.

FP>> is there a standard, even two?

DG> Two standards...

Maybe someone can share information about AY-mouse?

Warm greetings, Slava.

hehe... That person had CP/M as a pro using such a mouse! Yes, and you yourself
heard talk about a couple of mikruhs and compatibility with all the software that
supports the joystick :)

Good Luck...

... Virus detected! Delete Windows (Y/n)?

MR>> Damn, have you seen KM? Apparently not. No need to talk then.
MR>> 1. KM has 8 bit/axis vs 5bit/axis on AY mouse.

FP> Okay, I admit, I haven’t seen it. I only know the version that was
FP> once published in the ZX-Review - based on the Corvette mouse, like AY.
FP> I compared it with.

I found something to compare it with :)

FP> Nowadays, a car without music is funny. In addition, tell me where

to whom how.

FP> is it used for others? Yes, in KAY there is a printer hanging there. But this IMHO
FP> is nonsense, since there is not a single program that meets this standard. There are two

And under what standard do people use their printers? IMHO you are delusional. It's different for everyone. And AY is one of the varieties.

FP> standard - BB55 and Lprint-3. From the point of view of compatibility
FP> the second one is preferable, from the point of view of versatility the first one is preferable, since
FP> it allows not only to connect the printer.

With the same success I call the method of connecting the printer in KAY -
standard. Why? because he was developed on a production car. How lprint3 and vv55 were divorced at one time. And finally, if you wish, you can find a driver
for anything. (by the way, you forgot another scorpion standard :)

MR>> 3. AY mouse has a rather cunning driver, which can’t be said about KM

FP> Nothing fancy. II saw the driver from KM in FUT and ZX-Word. IMHO it’s even
FP> a little more complicated.

MR>> Just the range of counters is worth it!

FP> I don’t argue - it’s a big drawback.

MR>> The mouse through the joystick has become an even greater standard. So what?

FP> See above.

nevertheless, God bless the memory of CP/M
proffeskaya worked under such a mouse (via joystick). Well, standard?

Good Luck...

... FILES=1 BUFFERS=0 FCBS=SAYWHAT BREAK=GIMME

FP>>> - no one connects it like that. You can, of course, do so, but why, if
FP>>> there is a standard, even two?

DG>> Two standards...

VM> Maybe someone can share information about AY-mouse?

there are no 2 standards. And get this AY out of your head. There was and is only one standard. If programs are made for several different interfaces, then
there will be no standards anymore. After all, there can only be one standard.

Good Luck...

... Never kiss anything that doesn't have lips.

DG>> Two standards...

FP> I agree. But for some reason some people don’t agree. Like, in the branded
FP> Speccy it wasn’t like that, but the printer worked through them. Yes, it wasn’t, only
FP> we have our own standards, IMHO more successful. And the fact that in KAY the printer
FP> is suspended IMHO is insanity, because there is not a single program for it. Actually,

Man! Are you aware that the CENTRONIX port is not just for printers? And also
that in KAY it is bi-directional? It looks like you don’t know.

FP> it’s not clear why St. Petersburg people began to invent their own printer ports.

Read above. Not only for the printer. Moreover, it is economically justified. The music player has 3 ports. Why do the fourth? Besides
here you can (into the centronics) stick whatever you want. For example, a sampler,
which today can become quite relevant on the Spectrum, in connection with
the release of GS.

FP> There is also a very good and convenient option - ZX LPRINT. Well, also BB55, but it
FP> is less convenient - you need to download support. Although, for non-printer purposes,
FP> for example for local area, BB55 - it’s better not to think of it. Well KAY it's okay, but
FP> here's Scorppion... Hang up Strobe and TXD for RS-232C on the page port
FP> - IMHO this should have been thought of...

Hmm. What can we do, we didn’t have such gifted people in St. Petersburg to make
competent printer ports and a standard interfaceмыши...

Good Luck...

... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates

All work is done through port A of the coprocessor. In this case, it must
be enabled for input at all times. The layout is as follows:

Input:

7 - not used
6 /
5 - second button
4 - one of the buttons (it seems the left one)
3 \
2 - coordinates counted from the moment of the last reset. Bit 3 indicates the sign.
1 /
0/

Input: bit 6 - coordinate selection. 0 - X is read, 1 - Y is read. When the bit
changes from 1 to 0, the mouse is reset.

DG>> Two standards...

FP> I agree. Only for some reason some people disagree. Like, in the branded
FP> Speccy it wasn’t like that,

The branded one didn’t have a lot of things...

FP> and the printer worked through them. Yes, it wasn’t, only we
FP> have our own standards, IMHO more successful.

But _they_, for some reason, are more tenacious...

FP> And the fact that in KAY the printer is suspended in such a way IMHO is insanity, because there is not a single
FP> program for this.

I had a printer suspended like that in the Pentagon too. And there is a program - ART
STUDIO, I adapted it myself... in the dark year.

FP> In general, it is not clear why the St. Petersburg people began to invent their own ports for the
FP> printer.

I think for the same reason that the Muscovites came up with the AY mouse - whatever is lying around on the market, we connect it ;)

FP> There is a very good and convenient option - ZX LPRINT. there is also
FP> BB55, but it is less convenient - you need to download support. Although, for
FP> non-printer purposes, for example for LAN, BB55 is a better idea.
FP> KAY is still okay, but Scorppion... Attaching Strobe and TXD for
FP> RS-232C to the page port - IMHO I should have thought of this...

I didn’t understand anything :( Well, we are not professionals...

Regards, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

MR> And under what standard do people have printers? IMHO you are delusional. It's different for everyone
MR>. And AY is one of the varieties.

IMHO BB55 or ZX-LPRINT. These are the most common. There is also a
perverted BB55 - data on #1F, strobe on 6 bits #5F (ATAS and its
predecessor Kvant-BK). Scorpio has a separate story, although this should have been thought of - hang the Strobe on the page port.

MR> With the same success, I call the method of connecting a printer in KAY -
MR> standard. Why? because he was developed on a production machine. How
MR> was in
MR> at one time divorced lprint3 and bb55. And finally, if you wish, you can find a
MR> driver for anything. (by the way, you forgot another scorpion standard :)

Yes, I don’t argue. Now this is starart. I'm not talking about the fact that all KAYs need to be urgently torn off the printers from AYs and attached to LPRINT. I'm talking about something else -
why was it necessary to invent your own interface when analogues already existed.

MR> there are no 2 standards. And get this AY out of your head. The standard was and is
MR> only
MR> one. If more programs are made for several different interfaces,
MR> then
MR> there will be no standards anymore. After all, there can only be one standard.

Yes? Why did you so fiercely defend Kaev’s leftist Centronix? And
Skorpionovsky? Or should we tear off BB55 and LPRINT-3, and do it like in Kai
or Scorpio? ;-)

FP> All work is carried out through port A of the coprocessor. In this case, it must be switched on for input all the time. The layout is as follows:

=8-O

FP> Input:

FP> 7 - not used
FP> 6 /
FP> 5 - second button
FP> 4 - one of the buttons (I think it’s the left one)
FP> 3 \
FP> 2 - coordinates counted from the moment of the last reset. Bit 3
FP> indicates the sign. 1 / 0/

FP> Input: bit 6 - coordinate selection. 0 - X is read, 1 - Y is read. When
^^^^
Output?

FP> changing the bit from 1 to 0, the mouse is reset.

I see. Give the coordinate 3 bits. I wonder how much she can
calculate in 1/50 frame? Or is your scheme wrong?

Good Luck...

... Windows: From the people who brought you EDLIN!

FP> Yes, I don’t argue. Now this is a startart. I'm not talking about the fact that all
FP> KAY printers need to be urgently torn off from AY and attached to LPRINT. I'm talking
FP> about something else - why was it necessary to invent your own interface when there were already analogues
FP>.

Firstly, LPRINT3 is not so small. Secondly, BB55 is not small either. A
space on the board is LIMITED. Yes, by the way! No one is stopping you right now from TAKE and
MAKE A CHEAP LPRINT3 that will fit into the slot. It will work both on the scorpion and on other cars. And KAY does not have a printer port. There is a
CENTRONIX port through which you can connect a printer. And not only the printer.

FP> Yes? Why did you so fiercely defend Kaev’s leftist Centronix? And

Have you seen KAY? A scorpio? Why then are you talking about leftism?

FP> Scorpionovsky? Or should we tear off BB55 and LPRINT-3, and do it like
FP> in Kai or Scorpio? ;-)

Everyone will do what is easier for them. It's easier to write a driver in KAY and SOCRP.

Good Luck...

... "Come on! It's a whole new life out there!"
"Oh, no. Not another one!"

MR> Have you seen KAY? A scorpio? Why then are you talking about left?

I meant the left Centronix ports. A well-worn question: WHY INVENT THE BICYCLE?

MR> Everyone will do what is easier for them. In KAY and SOCRP it is easier to write a
MR> driver.

Oh, how you started talking! What if I say the same thing about mice? There
you can also write a driver.

MR> I see. And 3 bits are allocated for the coordinate. I wonder how much she
MR> can
MR> calculate in 1/50 frame? Or is your circuit wrong?

Yes, 3 bits. Only her zero looks like %1000. This is done for ease
of converting a nibble into a byte. To get a normal coordinate 8
bits long, only two commands are required:

AND #0F
SUB #08

And my scheme is correct. But why exactly for the interruption? IMHO it's easier
to hang it in the main loop, just like Kempston mouse. I always do this. This doesn't make it any worse - you still can't move the mouse too fast.

MR> Firstly, LPRINT3 is not so small. Secondly, BB55 is not
MR> small either. A
MR> space on the board is LIMITED. Yes, by the way! No one is stopping you right now from TAKE
MR> and
MR> TO MAKE A CHEAP LPRINT3 that will fit into the slot. It will work both on
MR> scorpion and on other cars. And KAY does not have a printer port. There is a
MR> port
MR> CENTRONIX through which you can connect a printer. And not only
MR> printer.

Out of habit, I called Centronix a printer port. And about BB55 you are so wrong.
It can take up almost no space. Even additional port decryptors are not
required - after all, it hangs on the same ports as the VG93, it just turns off when TR-DOS is turned on.

Attention, everyone!!!!!! Important question. How many characters per line should the new operating system print? I decided to redo the already written work with the screen:
remove the mouse window system from there, and at the same time change the text format.
Previously, for simplicity, I chose 64 characters, but this is terribly tiring for the eyesight.
I offer three options:

1) 32 characters. The simplest solution, takes up the least space in ROM, is consistent with the attributes, but too little information fits on the line. 2) 42
characters. The best option, but does not fit into the attributes. Besides, I want
even more.
3) an undeservedly forgotten format - 51 characters. A lot of information, at the same time
quite distinguishable symbols. o requires the most space.

Decide - the choice is yours.

I would also like to write about one problem. Recently there was a letter here about someone making a video card with 80x25 text mode. Information is recorded when writing to addresses starting with #0000. Perfect solution
except for one thing. And if I work with shadow RAM, then what should I do? You can,
of course, click on the page before writing to the screen, and then click back after it,
but this option is not very convenient. In addition, reading from video memory is impossible, which forces you to keep a copy of the screen in memory. It's not very convenient. Why not
redesign the circuit using a different method of accessing video memory?For example, suppose the card has a port with which you can print video RAM from an address, say, #C000? Then it will be possible to both read and write. Or even
steeper. Let it be typed at any address. For example, the most significant byte of the address is thrown into the port (with #FF - video RAM is disabled). So IMHO it would be
very convenient. They threw #C0 - it is from address #C000. If the program does not allow it, we throw
#80. Please, the screen will be from address #8000. And I would also like to have an overloadable character generator.

And finally, question N3. Yes, someone throw a diagram for connecting the internal
modem and a description of the ports!!!!

Bye everyone & best wishes.

Hallo Fedin!

Thursday March 27, 1997 17:50, Fedin Pavel wrote to All:

FP> Attention, everyone!!!!!! Important question. How many characters per line should
FP> be printed by the new operating system?

Standard answer. Standard text screen of any modern operating system
80x25 characters. Preferably with double brightness/inversion attributes and a cursor. For example, all communication programs that output text are designed for such a terminal. See, for example, the description of the vt100 terminal, standard for UNIX machines...

FP> Decide - the choice is yours.

If the choice were really ours... However, even in this case, I would hardly agree to less than 64x24 characters. With a decomposition matrix no worse than 8x8, but preferably 8x14 or 8x16. Health is more expensive...

FP> I would also like to write about one problem. Recently there was a letter
FP> about someone making a video card with text mode
FP> 80x25. Information is recorded when writing to addresses starting
FP> with #0000. Perfect solution except for one thing. And if I work with
FP> shadow RAM, then what should I do?

It seems to me that the smartest thing would be to implement a standard interface with
text video BIOS via RST 10. Then the program should not even know
what kind of piece of hardware is docked to the Spectrum. And the tasks of switching video pages
(orrecords to the port of an external video terminal, for example), lie on the “dummy” ROM of the video BIOS. Which, best of all, following the TR-DOS model should not be
“visible” from the BASIC level.
This is the most universal solution, and it is also the easiest to support
when writing programs...

FP> In addition, reading from video memory is impossible, which forces
FP> to keep a copy of the screen in memory. This is not very convenient.

But this is a “standard” feature of most operating systems. Why read what you yourself wrote down? If necessary, remember the characters in the external buffer. This
approach, by the way, speeds up the work, since to “edit” the image, it
will not need to be read from the screen memory.
If you really can’t do without this, provide a video BIOS function
that returns character codes from the screen area...

FP> And I would also like to have an overloadable character generator.

I would like, of course. But not all standard video cards can do this...

FP> And finally, question N3. Yes, someone throw a diagram of the connection
FP> of the internal modem and a description of the ports!!!!

The connection diagram was in the dock on my terminal. All software was transferred to
this echo, look for it from someone on Spectrum BBS...
The ports exactly correspond to IBM COM ports, they are described in any book onIBM.
Personally, I used Jordain’s book for programming...

Good luck George

FP>>> I know. The conversation is not about the fact that this is sux, but about why it was
FP>>> to reinvent the wheel. One BB55 next to the VG93 would not have anyone
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
FP>>> arranged...
^^^^^^^^^^^^
MR>> I don’t really understand you for some reason... Where is it nearby? And what does VG93 have to do with it?

FP> Despite the fact that all the address and data buses of VG93 and BB55 are the same.
FP> Only the choice differs. On VG there are addresses + IORQ + DOSEN (I think that's what it's called), and on BB there are addresses + OUTIORQ. I see you've never seen the board
FP> Pentagon-48.

So? Haven’t you seen the FDD controller! :) (and yet I still didn’t understand the meaning
of the underlined phrase)

FP> What if I want to roll out a WAV to the entire 512 kb?

Do it. With loading. IMHO this can be implemented with GS.

FP> Know. :-)))

I don't feel anything yet...

Good Luck...

... Viking Philoharmonic Orchestra: World's largest horn section!