Sprinter and C64

> AH>>>> He won’t do anything... And if he does, there will be no price for Sprinter!
> AS>>>>> And where is he? I'm seriously telling you about the Sprinter,
> AS>>>>> revive the C64 on it.
> AH>>>> Golden words, it’s so nice...!
> IM>>> We need info on the C64 hardware. Is there?
> AK>> Isn’t there a Z80???
> IM> Isn’t there? If not, then what kind of clone is this ZX-Spectrum?
>
> and who said that he is a CLONE? :)
This is the development of the Apple-II ;)
Have you all dropped out of the woodwork, they don’t know C64 ;).
We open ElectronicWelt'94 (so back in 1995, all the giblets
were bought right in St. Petersburg, and in 1996 they disappeared (the comper itself from Conrad in Germany
was bought for 179 marks, and in St. Petersburg respectively, for 179 bucks, naturally
what kind of fool would buy from them at these prices, when in the sporting goods store on
Bolshoy pr. ).
C64
---
8701 OZL (?) that’s what it is - I don’t get it ;(
6001-250 Char-ROM And the rest seems clear
6004-161 Basic-ROM
7000-273 Kernal-ROM
6510A 8bit CPU from the 6502 family
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but you will have to emulate this, and where the speed
is not enough, although IMHO it is enough everywhere, the hardware on Altera
6526 CIA is, as I understand it, Centronics interface adapter
6569A PAL(VIC) is a video chip
6581 SID Sound-Chip
82S100 PLA Adr.Manager is a PLM for formation CS

C-64(2)
---
8565 PAL VIC/C64 II obviously cooler video and sound chips
8580 SID Sound Chip

Well, in general, the Poles in the mid-80s correctly realized: there is too much contraband
for one computer ;)

With the z80 this was not close, but you can still emulate, you at least dig up something on the Internet based on the chips
such things are declassified after the statute of limitations has expired.
Ivan told you, give me the information.
Well, since I got hold of it and probably not everyone has these catalogs, I will give out everything that
is in it about the C64 - II Homecomputer
Technical characteristics:
64 KB RAM, 38 KB for programs on BASIC and data, 20 KB ROM
Screen:
25 lines of 40 characters per line, 320x200 pixels, 8 independently moving
sprites 21x24 pixels.
QWERTY keyboard with 63 keys + 4 function keys for 8 programmable
functions (?) hmm...what have I become forget German ;)
High-frequency output to TV or PAL, printer, 3" floppy disk 170 kB,
analog mouse and all kinds of joysticks(aircraft steering wheel, rudders with pedals
etc).
There are also a lot of games on floppy disks with very stupid advertising and cartridges.
It’s strange that the number of screen colors and processor clock speed are not indicated,
but in general, as you can see, there is nothing extremely complicated for emulation!

>
> Good Luck...

Sincerely, Andrey Savichev/ CGS

AS> CIA, as I understand it, is Centronics interface adapter

CIA - ComplexInterfaceAdapter.

AS> It’s strange that the number of screen colors and clock frequency are not indicated
AS> processor, but in general, as you can see for yourself, there is nothing extremely complicated for emulation
AS>!

The processor clock rate is somewhere around 1Mhz. And the difficult thing is that it is VERY difficult
to emulate an 8-bit percent on ANOTHER 8-bit process.

Good Luck...

... Windows Error 015: Unable to exit windows. Try the door.

Saturday February 21 1998 07:27, Andrew Savichev wrote to All:

AS> With the z80 this was not close, but you can still emulate, at least you know

How? Everything is on chips there. You need to crack the chips or look for complete information!

AS> for chips, dig something up on the Internet, such things are declassified after
AS> the statute of limitations has expired.

This has not been made public yet.

AS> Ivan told you, give me the information. Well, since I got hold of it and
AS> probably not everyone has these directories, then I’ll give out everything that’s in it about
AS> C64
AS> - II Homecomputer Technical characteristics: 64Kb RAM, 38Kbyte for
AS> programs in BASIC and data, 20Kbyte ROM Screen: 25 lines of 40 characters per
AS> line, 320x200 pixels, 8 independently moving sprites 21x24 pixels.
AS> QWERTY keyboard with 63 keys + 4 functional keys for 8 programmable
AS> functions (?) hmm... why did I start to forget German ;) High-frequency
AS> output to TV or PAL, printer, 3" floppy disk 170 KB, analog mouse and

Wrong! 5'25 fdd single-sided, 174kb, there are also double-sided.
The most common is 1541, then 1570, 1571, 1580, 1581.

AS> all kinds of joysticks (aircraft steering wheel, rudders with pedals, etc.). floppy disks with very stupid advertising and cartridges. It is strange that the quantity is not indicated.screen colors and processor clock speed, but in
AS> in general, as you can see for yourself, there is nothing extremely complicated for emulation!

There are like 16 colors, although I could be wrong. There is a palette, text mode.
Processor 6510 motorola, ~1Mhz, 3 registers: battery and two index ones.
Awesome thing SID! A 4-voice DAC was very cool at that time and even now.
DMA channel, can read from a disk at the same time as music.
Of course, the video chip is a wonderful thing!

Awesomely slow drive, you only need a native drive, and a clever one
connected one.

Cool thing 1535 - a proprietary tape recorder - controlled by software.

There are various expanders, improving the characteristics.

The most interesting thing is that the older brother c128 did not take root - the situation is similar
SamCoupe.

If you have any questions - write, or if you have the Internet - read comp.sys.cbm

PS: and the demos on c64 just make your hair stand on end!

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · · · · Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru ··· · · ·

MR> The processor clock rate is somewhere around 1Mhz.

And most commands IMHO are executed in one clock cycle. Those. the speed is close
to the Z80 in a regular Spectrum.

MR> What’s complicated is that it’s VERY difficult to emulate an 8-bit processor on ANOTHER
MR> 8-bit processor.

Nothing complicated. Another thing is - very SLOW! And the main problems
will not be in the emulation of the processor, but in the emulation of the missing hardware...
There are solutions that require 1000 times greater speed for full emulation on another processor/
hardware. A classic example is a sound generation program in AOH. The sound is generated according to the PWM principle, and the duration of each pulse is determined by programming the hardware timer (VI53), and the period between pulses is determined by the number of processor cycles when executing the program. Those. you need to emulate a hardware timer and all processor commands in real time, taking into account their duration...

Sincerely, George

Sun Feb 22 1998 23:28, Artem Haritonov wrote to Andrew Savichev:
AH> PS: and demos on c64 make your hair stand on end!
Decided to torture?
<- With best regardz,Pavel ->

ZX - The Power of Shock (c) Pol Freeman

GS> And most commands IMHO are executed in one clock cycle. Those. in terms of speed
GS> is close to the Z80 in the regular Spectrum.

daydreaming :))) In terms of speed it is SLOWER, and benefits due to
its sophisticated architecture.

GS> Nothing complicated. Another thing is - very SLOW! And the main problems
GS> will not be in the emulation of the processor, but in the emulation of the missing hardware...

if they don’t make a normal distribution of pages in memory, then
it’s a disaster.

GS> There are solutions that, for full emulation on another processor/
GS> hardware, require 1000 times higher performance. A classic example is
GS> - a sound generation program in AOH. The sound is generated according to the PWM principle,
GS>, and the duration of each pulse is determined by programming the
GS> hardware timer (VI53), and the period between pulses is the number of cycles of the
GS> processor when executing the program. Those. you need to emulate the hardware timer and all processor commands in real time, taking into account their
GS> duration...

why such complexity? Have you seen programs on the spec that record voices from
tape inputs? No emulation of timers - everything is delayed.

Same thing in aons.

Good Luck...

... I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling indead.

GS>> There are solutions that require 1000 times higher performance for full emulation on another processor/
GS>> hardware. A classic example
GS>> is a sound generation program in AOH. The sound is formed according to the PWM principle,
GS>>, and the duration of each pulse is determined by programming the
GS>> hardware timer (VI53), and the period between pulses is the number of cycles of the
GS>> processor when executing the program. Those. you need to emulate the hardware timer and all processor commands in real time, taking into account their
GS>> duration...

GS> Have you disassembled the AOH firmware? I - yes. And I made my own programs for issuing
GS> voices, with unzipping. Without using a timer, you won't get a good sound
GS>, even if you kill yourself...

you will get it - it's easy. in aon-ah there is no variety of processor frequencies -> no
need a timer for voice timing. on the contrary, it will only slow down
the output. (in the sense of fiddling with the timer).

Good Luck...

... The beatings will continue until morale improves.

MR> lost my dreams :))) In terms of speed, it is SLOWER, and benefits due to
MR> sophisticated architecture.

Max, you're wrong... At the same frequency, the 6502 will actually work faster than the Z80. I think about twice.

With the best wishes, MagiC/Extreme {magi...@usa.net}

VM> Max, you're wrong... At the same frequency, 6502 will really
VM> work faster than Z80. I think about twice as much.

NO!!! in terms of performance, it is AWESOMELY behind, if only because of
the lack of such a number of registers as in the zetnik.

all the magic of such computers lies not in the power of the processor, but in the
power of the hardware. An example of this is the amiga500. where for most things you don't
have to work very hard.

Good Luck...

... Budget: A method for going broke methodically.

MR> you will get it - it’s easy.

It’s immediately obvious that you yourself didn’t write such programs... ;)

MR> in aon-ah there is no variety of processor frequencies -> you don’t need a timer for
MR> voice timing. on the contrary, it will only slow down the output. (in the sense
MR> fiddling with the timer).

In your opinion, is it easier to push one byte into the timer port, or after
a strictly defined number of clock cycles to output a one to the “sound” port,
and after a strictly defined number of clock cycles - a zero? If you make a mistake even by one clock cycle, you will whistle like a robber nightingale ;)
I’ll tell you straight, it was not easy for me to align all branches of the unpacking algorithm with an accuracy of a clock cycle, but it only required
to maintain the total number of clock cycles between issuing bytes to the timer. If there wasn't a timer, it's unlikely that I would have started writing this program. Well, except
on a PIC processor, where all commands are executed in 1 or 2 cycles ;)

Sincerely, George

GS> It’s immediately clear that you yourself didn’t write such programs... ;)

wrote.

GS> In your opinion, it’s easier to push one byte into the timer port, or through
GS> a strictly defined number of clock cycles to output one to the “sound” port, and
GS> through another strictly a certain number of ticks - zero? If you make a mistake even by _one_
GS> clock, it will whistle like a robber nightingale ;)

why is it so difficult.

1. take BYTE.
2. at bit 0 = 0 - go to the p.program output 0 to port.
which returns to step 4.
3. otherwise, go to step program output 1 to port.
which returns to step 4.
4. register shift with sound
5. delay a few clock cycles by NOP NOP NOP.
6. decreasing the bit counter, repeating from step 2
7. decreasing byte counter - repeat with address increment step 1.

that's all. hemorrhoids - with a timer.

GS> I’ll tell you straight, it was not easy for me to align all branches of the unpacking algorithm accurate to the
GS> clock cycle, but it only required
GS> to maintain the total number of clock cycles between issuing bytes to the timer. If
GS> there was no timer, I would hardly have started writing this program. Well, maybe
GS> on a PIC processor, where all commands are executed in 1 or 2 cycles ;)

and how did the timer help you, huh? DMA would help. a timer? Does it
generate interruptions for you, or do you look at it regularly?

GoodLuck...

... Windows --> The best $89 solitare game you can buy.

Hi, Max!

10 Mar 98, Max Romanoff writes to Victor Moskalyov:

MR> NO!!! in terms of performance, it is AWESOMELY behind, if only because
MR> the lack of such a number of registers as in the ztnik.

MR> all the magic of such computers lies not in the power of the processor, but in the
MR> power of the hardware. An example of this is the amiga500. where for most things you don't
MR> you have to work especially hard.

MSX also falls into this category with its video chip...

With best wishes - Andrey Khristov (ha...@robin.alt.ru)

[Team Horse Aviation] [Team beer, girls & sofa]
[Team Electric Welding Must Die!] [Team Khasan Border Guards]

Yes, there are only 3 registers. So what? The 6502 can access memory cells from 0 to #ff faster than the rest (in my opinion, in 2 clock cycles). So
they can be used as additional registers. On the Z80, only
register-to-register transfer takes 4 clock cycles, register-memory takes 7 clock cycles, I’m generally silent about
the rest...
In the 6502, the most sophisticated command takes 7 clock cycles!

MR>> no need to strain too much.
AK> MSX also falls into this category with its video chip...
Only on V9958 and V9990, no less...

Bye!

[dE ETERNAL MSX Crew] ╓ Mike Wolf╖
╚══════════╝
... Breathe the pressure, Come play my game I'll test ya!

16 Mar 98 00:48, Victor Moskalyov reported by Max Romanoff about {Re: Sprinter and
C64}:

VM> In the 6502, the most sophisticated command takes 7 clock cycles!

Z80XXX is already made for two or more dozen MHz (example - Sprinter). And 6502
how long does it work (IMHO, 1 MHz?)

Warm greetings, Slava!

AK> MSX also falls into this category with its video chip...

let's take it even wider:

Dendy
gameBoy
+ various GameGears...

not all of them are on the desktop, but they all have graphics hardware. maybe not
fancy, but they have it.

Good Luck...

... Never drink coffee that's been anywhere near a fish.

VM> Yes, there are only 3 registers. So what? 6502 can access memory cells from 0 to #ff
VM> faster than the others (in my opinion, in 2 clock cycles). Here
VM> they can be used as additional registers. Ha Z80

but this is a little different. these are not registers. you can’t do
operations with them as quickly as with registers.

VM> only register-to-register transfer takes 4 clock cycles, register-memory takes 7
VM> clock cycles, I’m generally silent about the rest... The 6502 has the most sophisticated
VM> the command takes 7 clock cycles!

gigs - for him fancy - for others - not ;)

Good Luck...

... IBM: I'm Being Manipulated.

VM> Z80XXX is already made for two or more dozen MHz (example - Sprinter). And
VM> 6502 works for how long (IMHO, 1 MHz?)

The c64 and c128 came with an Axel at 20 Mhz, with a sophisticated video processor and
additional features. Can you imagine what this machine can do?!!

VM> Warm greetings, Slava!

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · ··· Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru ··· · · ·

MR> why is it so difficult.

MR> 1. take BYTE.
MR> 2. if the 0m bit =0 - go to the step program for outputting 0 to the port.
MR> which returns to step 4.
MR> 3. otherwise go to p.output program 1 to port.
MR> which returns to step 4.
MR> 4. register shift with sound
MR> 5. delay several clock cycles by NOP NOP NOP.
MR> 6. decreasing the bit counter, repeating from step 2
MR> 7. decreasing the counter byte - repeat with increment of address of step 1.

MR> that's all. hemorrhoids - with a timer.

Firstly, the sound in the AOH is 4-bit, so you will have to output
not zeros and ones to the port... Secondly, my program supported
dynamic display indication and unpacking of packaged sound. By the way,
each PWM sample was repeated several times so that the digitization frequency was not
audible... And finally, do you have any idea how to equalize the duration
cycles of program execution when transitioning between points 1, 2 <- 6, 7?
Keep in mind that the duration of NOP = 4 clock cycles, and there may be a discrepancy between different branches of the program
any...

Not at 1, but at 2 MHz. In general, I meant the standard processor for the ZX, i.e. z80
at 3.5MHz. And I don’t really care about all sorts of quirks like sprinter, pro, etc.

>
> VM> Warm greetings, Slava!
>
>
> cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · ··· Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru ··· · · ·
>

Mon 23 Mar 1998 03:29, Victor Moskalyov wrote to Vyacheslav Mednonogov:

VM> And all sorts of quirks like
VM> sprinter, pro, etc. I don’t care at all.

Me too...

Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

VM>> And how long does the 6502 work (IMHO, 1 MHz?)

VM> Not at 1, but at 2 MHz. In general, I meant the standard processor for the ZX,

In c64 the percent runs at 1MHz.

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · ··· Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru · · · · · ·

VM> i.e. z80 at 3.5MHz. And all sorts of quirks like sprinter, pro, etc.
VM> I don’t care at all.
Who told you that on PROFI the processor clock frequency is not 3.5 MHz?
If you don’t know, then there’s no point in talking!

Sincerely, Konstantin.
* Origin: Evening morning wiser.

VM>> Yes, there are only 3 registers. So what? 6502 can access memory cells from 0 to #ff
VM>> faster than the others (in my opinion, in 2 clock cycles). Here
VM>> they can be used as additional registers. Ha Z80

TV> and how much does this quirk cost together with the c64&c128?

The approximate cost for us is c64/1541 (disk drive)/1535 (tape recorder) - $25-30
In the west (but not everywhere) c64/2x1541/1535 - $15-20
Axel - ~90 $, but now the price could have changed (looked almost a year ago).
c128/1571(80)/1535 - $50

Well, there’s other nonsense - cords, power supply, joysticks, extender - usually
come included.

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · · · · Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru ··· · · ·

With the best wishes, MagiC/Extreme {magi...@usa.net}

VM> A in the end it turns out at the same speed as with registers on the Z80 ;)

no. it turns out almost the same as with native registers, but due to
1 Mhz - it turns out slower.

VM> Ha 6502 has such addressing methods that the Z80 never dreamed of ;)

don’t tell me... zilog has very sophisticated addressing methods for 8
bit computers.

Good Luck...

... There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

GS> Firstly, the sound in the AON is 4-bit, so you will have to output it to the port

hello... we've arrived... depending on what kind of audio. in the standard version
the sound is 1 bit. there were options with 8bit (khaki hardware with specially
trained firmware)...

GS> dynamic display indication and unpacking of packaged sound. By the way,

pf... in place of the delay you put the output of the current segment, and that's all
done.

GS> each PWM count was repeated several times so that the digitization frequency was not
GS> audible... And finally, do you have any idea how to equalize

eh! what kind of PWM on 4 bits 4Mhz?

GS> duration of program execution cycles when transitioning between points 1
GS>, 2 <- 6, 7? Keep in mind that the duration of NOP = 4 clock cycles, and the discrepancy between
GS> different branches of the program can be any...

yeah. we know. We've known for a long time. this was just an example. besides, you don’t even have to suffer from such accuracy - the ear won’t hear.

GS> He gave me (like everyone else who made sound on AOH) impulses
GS> of a given duration. From 1 to 16 "units". Autonomous. Hence the 4
GS> bit sound...

i.e. sound through a timer, right?

GS> In general, keep your morals: don’t argue with people on issues that they
GS> understand better than you...

where have you seen someone argue? Here's something else zx.spectrum
is discussed. what are you discussing?

:)

Good Luck...

... Windows: A virus with mouse support.

Dyk you immediately tell that you and Speccy pofigu. And means more write
Here you nothing to acquire. Confused? Me too! :-)

VM> and 6502 has such addressing methods that the Z80 never dreamed of ;)

And in Africa, 90% of the territory has not seen 5 degrees below zero!!! ;)

What I mean is that the main thing is performance!!!

MR> where did you see someone arguing? here is something else zx.spectrum
MR> is discussed. What are you discussing?

They asked for a sound algorithm for the Z80. I had to popularly explain that the Spectrum does not have a programmable timer, so the algorithms from AOH do not work for it. What are you discussing?..

Sincerely, George

GS> Your standard is interesting... The standard is PWM using VI53, 4
GS> bit. For versions on Z80. You can take an interest in the echo of RU.AON...

very interesting. just where do you get 4 bits?

GS> You lamer... There were already such “programmers”, their versions of AOHs whistled
GS> so that people spat... :(

they wouldn’t whistle. There would be a SMALL instability,
inaudible....

GS> They asked for a sound algorithm for the Z80. I had to popularly explain that the
GS> Spectrum does not have a programmable timer, so the algorithms from AOH for the
GS> do not work for it. What are you discussing?..

something that is possible without a timer.

Good Luck...

... MS-DOS: the Dwight D. Eisenhower of operating systems.

AR> So tell me right away that you and Speccy don’t care... Which means you have nothing more to write
AR> here...

That’s exactly what I don’t care about ;)

KS> Who told you that on PROFI the processor clock frequency is not 3.5 MHz?
KS> If you don’t know, then there’s no point in talking!

???????????

VM>> and 6502 has such addressing methods that the Z80 never dreamed of ;)

AR> And in Africa, 90% of the territory has not seen 5 degrees below zero!!! ;)

AR> What I mean is that the main thing is performance!!!

It is quite logical that the presence or absence of addressing methods, as well as the number
cycles in which commands are executed, influence
the performance of the processor, as well as the clock frequency.

In general, if we continue to develop the topic like this, then PowerPC is better than Z80, because it is
more productive. But we don't immediately run to buy a MAC or AMIGA because of this ;)
It's a hobby. I'm interested in both Commodore and ZX.
I have an AMIGA, but it can't give me what the Spectrum can
give, although it has a more powerful processor
and a more powerful OS, supports multiprocessing, etc. etc.
That's all :)

With best wishes - Andrey Khristov (ha...@robin.alt.ru)

[Team Horse Aviation] [Team beer, girls & sofa]
[Team Electric Welding Must Die!] [Team Khasansky border guards]

AK> Have you seen the Rus/Ellis diagram? There is a DAC with 4 resistors ;)))

but that’s not it. I'm talking about ordinary ones, in which this is not the case... damn,
if such things were done with a timer, then why was it necessary to invent circuits
with 4 resistors? at most, I have seen versions with 8bit DAC...

Good Luck...

... Press Smash forehead on keyboard to continue.....

VM> In general, if we continue to develop the topic like this, then PowerPC is better than Z80, because
VM> it is more productive. But we don’t immediately run because of this
VM> to buy a MAC or AMIGA ;) It’s a matter of hobby. I'm interested in both Commodore and
VM>ZX. I have an AMIGA, but it cannot give me what the
VM> Spectrum can give, although it has a more powerful processor, a more powerful
VM> OS, supports multiprocessing, etc. etc. That's all :)

Well, it has begun...

With respect, Nickolay Zabrodotsky AKA ProfeSSor F0lken
■Unsubscribed at 12:10.
... You should kill for this.

GS>> We asked for a sound algorithm for the Z80. I had to popularly explain that the
GS>> Spectrum does not have a programmable timer, so the algorithms from AOH for the
GS>> do not work on it. What are you discussing?..

MR> but that’s not it. I'm talking about ordinary ones, in which this is not the case...

In ordinary ones on a timer...

MR> damn, if such things were done with a timer, then why was it necessary to invent
MR> circuits with 4 resistors? At most, I've seen versions with an 8bit DAC...

Go to AON's echo and ask a simple question. Post your answer here.
Or should I do it? ;)

Sincerely, George

GS> Go to AON's echo and ask a simple question. Post your answer here.
GS> Or should I do this? ;)

don't you think for a long time that this topic has gone beyond the scope of the topic of this
conference?

Good Luck...

... If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft.

GS> There are two nibbles in each byte. Each nibble has 4 bits. You didn't know? ;)

knew, and what follows from this?

GS> You can. But the program will be completely different...

simpler.

Good Luck...

... I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.

MR> simpler.

OTHER. Have you forgotten where the conversation started?

Sincerely, George