Sprinter
ZXNet echo conference «zx.spectrum»
St.Petersburg codepage 866
Thursday November 06 1997
10:18
Hello comrade All!
I saw the subject the other day. Impressive. Before that I thought that the price being charged for it
was high, but as it turned out, the opportunity/price ratio is 2 order
higher than expected, in connection with which I recommend everyone to pay close attention to the subject.
Sincerely yours Igor
>> Together We will put an end to all bourgeois evil spirits!!!!!
E-Mail : ray...@itm.spb.su
Get Msg, Igor!
06 Nov 97 10:17, Igor Maznitsa reported to All about {Sprinter}:
IM> I saw the subject the other day. Impressive.
Already on sale?
Warm greetings, Slava!
St.Petersburg codepage 866
Friday November 14 1997
20:46
Hello comrade Vyacheslav!
* Wednesday November 12 1997 13:40, Vyacheslav Mednonogov write to Igor Maznitsa
* Subj: ~Sprinter~
VM> Get Msg, Igor!
VM> 06 Nov 97 10:17, Igor Maznitsa reported to All about {Sprinter}:
IM>> I saw the subject the other day. Impressive.
VM> Already on sale?
approximately since December, boards have already been ordered at ELECTRONMASH.
I I heard that you (note with a capital letter (this means that I am not disappointed in you
yet)) will support this computer if more than
500 cars are sold?
I saw offers from the Peters from Germany regarding the purchase of a Sprinter.
IM> approximately since December, boards have already been ordered at ELECTRONMASH.
Clear... As always...
IM> will you support this computer if more than 500 cars are sold?
In SpbZxNet Nemo called 1000 cars :) Actually, the absence of
the Sprinter emulator is very depressing - I can hardly imagine what to do... Well, in In general, the idea was put forward to do several. game options (for the usual spec and sprinter, different in graphics, but with a single code)... However, nothing concrete was promised. We need to look...
IM> I saw offers from the Peters from Germany regarding the purchase of a Sprinter.
For some reason, associations about a fat burgher with a fat
sausage come to mind again :) Are there Spectrum fans there? Apart from CAD3D and LayOut'86
nothing German comes to mind.
Vyacheslav is that you?
...why were you telling Igor Maznitsa about Sprinter?
VM> In SpbZxNet Nemo called 1000 cars :) Actually, it’s very depressing
pretty bad, I wonder how many years it will take them to get 1000
users? (if there are enough)
Good Luck...
... IBM: Idiot but Marketable!
IM>> cars?
VM> In SpbZxNet Nemo called 1000 cars :) Actually, it’s very depressing
VM> the lack of a Sprinter emulator - I can hardly imagine what to do...
at the same time, I agree that this is VERY GOOD
VM> Well,
VM> but in general, the idea was put forward to do several. game options (for normal
VM> spec and sprinter, differing in graphics, but with a single code)...
VM> However, nothing concrete was promised. Must see...
Sincerely yours Igor
>> Together We will put an end to all bourgeois evil spirits!!!!!
E-Mail : ray...@itm.spb.su
Igor is that you?
...why did you tell me about Re: Sprinter?
IM> I think in 0.3 years
I think you shouldn’t think so.
Good Luck...
... PC User? Line On The Left, One Cross Each.
MR> I think you shouldn’t think so.
I think you Mach, you shouldn’t think so. I haven’t seen it, I haven’t worked, don’t tell!
Time will tell whether Sprinter can compete with Scorpio,
and whether Sergei Zonov was really joking, it’s better to ask him, not decide
on his behalf.
With respect --Denis--
Denis is that you?
...why did you tell me about the Sprinter?
DE> I think you Mach, you shouldn’t think like that. I haven’t seen it, I haven’t worked, don’t tell me! Time
DE> will show whether Sprinter will be able to compete with Scorpio,
Because he will be something better than Scorpio, no one will rush
to sell Scorpios and the rest in order to get dubious
pleasure (and will he even get it?) under a strange name...
DE> and Was Sergei Zonov really joking? It’s better to ask him rather than decide
DE> on his behalf.
DE> * Origin: All of you go to... (2:5030/633.35)
hmm... it’s hard to be a pisser...
Good Luck...
... It must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
With best regards.
Andrey.
MR> Because he will be something better than a scorpion, no one will rush
MR> to sell scorpions and the rest in order to get something dubious
Possibly, but his appearance will destroy the complex that normal
graphics/sound, etc. can only be on PC or AMIGe, that
Spectrum is a toy or computer for young people. ;).
DP> Perhaps, but his appearance will destroy the complex that is normal
DP> graphics/sound, etc. can only be on PC or AMIGe, that
DP> Spectrum is a toy or a computer for young people. ;)
So it was and will remain so. Because he will not destroy anything in one day/year and
*doesn’t* *repeat* what has been created *for years*. Moreover, taking the defective interest as a basis, they dug his grave in advance. And the graphics/sound
and everything else will remain the best elsewhere.
Nobody told you that the best idea without software support is
a dead idea?
DP> What is the connection between the possibilities and the name?!
Think about the name. (about the name I’m so simple, although it is also something else.
Good Luck...
... My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
Paul is that you?
...why did you tell Denis Parinov about the Sprinter?
PF> it’s difficult to relearn back to the Spectrum.
why say 'back'? :) It was difficult there ;)
PF> he just didn’t care.
he didn’t guess right. It's just a crazy name. SPRINTER (printer? which
prints? Super-printer?)
Good Luck...
... 'Windows' is NOT a virus! Viruses DO something!
AL> :-)))))))))))))))) And for me the name is normal.
in the spirit of:
SLOADER (loads very quickly)
Good Luck...
... If you smoke after sex, you're doing it too fast.
AR> What about deliveries to Kyiv and other cities???
This is for Igor or Denis Parinov. In general (Denis wrote) - they have their own address
there is
Warm greetings, Slava!
St.Petersburg codepage 866
Wednesday December 03 1997
20:20
Hello comrade All!
Ivan wants to include in the Sprinter a hardware implementation of 16-bit
multiplication and division, attempts are also being made to make another video mode
in which it will be possible to display planes that will fill in hardware
with a texture located in RAM.
It is possible to implement in hardware any other necessary commands
that the Z80 does not have. Give suggestions.
Igor is that you?
...why did you tell everyone about Sprinter?
IM> Ivan wants to include in Sprinter a hardware implementation of 16-bit
IM> multiplication and division, and attempts are also being made to make another one
It was necessary to install NOT Z80 percent, then there would be division, and
multiplication, and the bus would not be 8-bit, and there would be caches, and there would be an MMU, and all this would be with
megahertz...
IM> a video mode in which it would be possible to display planes that would
IM> be filled in hardware with a texture located in RAM.
Fill? Is it like in an art studio?
IM> It is possible to implement in hardware any other necessary
IM> commands that the Z80 does not have. Submit suggestions.
Hmmm, I wonder how these commands will work? Implement auto-incremental addressing first :)
ld hl,(de)+
Good Luck...
... Virus Alert: Windows found R)emove I)gnore P)anic
MR> Hmm, I wonder how these commands will work?
They will probably slow down. It seems that in these modified Z80s, for all
undocumented commands, the processor generates a trap and goes somewhere. And there the
Peters in the ROM catch the transition, look at what the command was and carry out the necessary
p/p. Those. (IMHO) "new commands" - a set of commands in ROM.
2IM: right?
MR> Implement auto-incremental addressing to begin with :)
MR> ld hl,(de)+
You understand, you can implement anything this way - it will be cooler
matarolls ;) Another 200 super-cool ones teams!
Warm greetings, Slava!
Hi, Igor!
One day Wed Dec 03 1997 20:19, Igor Maznitsa wrote a letter to All:
IM> Ivan wants to include in Sprinter a hardware implementation of 16-bit
IM> multiplication and division, and attempts are also being made to make another video mode,
IM> in which it will be possible to display planes that will be hardware
IM> fill with a texture located in RAM. It is possible to implement in hardware
IM> any other necessary commands that the Z80 does not have. Give
IM> suggestions.
Put 80387 and work with mathematics :)
Bye... bye bye, Sersh !
DP>> Perhaps, but his appearance will destroy the complex that is normal
DP>> graphics/sound, etc. can only be on PC or AMIGe, which
DP>> Spectrum is a toy or a computer for young people. ;)
PF> well, imagine if on a PC or Amiga there is such a command:
PF> mov rg,(rg+rg*n); n is a multiplier, in short
PF> is indexing to any register as a base +
PF> offset to any register multiplied by a number and placing
PF> the result in any register. Yes, he won’t look at the sprinter
Ha!!! I, too, once thought that the coolness of a processor was determined by its commands.
In fact, nothing like that. If we assume this, then such a percentage as 6502
cannot be compared with 8080. And these are processors of approximately the same power...
Therefore, it is necessary to consider the PRODUCTIVITY of the processor, which in turn
depends on many factors (power of commands, speed: "number of cycles
per command", internal CLK, external CLK, type and size of cache and etc.).
By the way, if according to these criteria you compare the processors of the A500 (and even the A1200!!!) and
Sprinter, then it turns out that the Z84 21MHz is more powerful... ;)
PF> Moreover, they (on the Amiga) commands are assigned from left to right =>
PF> it is difficult to relearn back to the Spectrum.
^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) !!!
;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) !!!
;))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) !!!
Remember: give a real programmer a more powerful piece of hardware... the rest
to him !!!
With best regards.
Andrey.
Vyacheslav is that you?
...why were you telling me about the Sprinter?
VM> They will probably slow down. It seems that in these modified Z80 by
VM> all undocumented commands the processor generates a trap and somewhere
the fact of the matter is that in the process that they install, there are no such features
. They start, imho, starting from 280. Those. all pre280 -
have a standard commandset, and do not need advanced features
such as trap. Yes, and why should they do it if everyone can do it for themselves later? Those. their idea is to make iron. As I
understood. Maybe they will do it in an advanced way: the hardware will look at the bus,
and when selecting certain codes, it will do its job.
VM> 2IM: so?
in my opinion, not so.
VM> You understand, you can implement anything this way - it will be
VM> cooler than matarola ;) More 200 super-cool teams!
so... of course.. Oh, this is a rotten idea...
Good Luck...
... And there were plagues of locusts, and frogs, and MS-DOS, and MS Windows.
SZ> Put 80387 and work with mathematics :)
Are you, my friend, a pervert?! ;) The thing is that fat processors
have a coprocessor interface, which is not present in Zilog. and this
will have to be done programmatically. Those. downloads and other crap....
Good Luck...
... Amiga can emulate other computers, but who wants to do it?
Andrey is that you?
...why were you telling Paul Falcon about the Sprinter?
AR> By the way, if you compare the A500 (and even the A1200
AR> !!!) and the Sprinter based on these criteria, it turns out that the Z84 21MHz is more powerful... ;)
low. The pumping speed for an 8-bit processor is less. ->
performance is less. We take into account the ridiculous 64k and a limited
set of registers. Yes, you compared finally: 68000 7Mhz (a500), 68020
14Mhz (a1200) with 21Mhz....
AR> Remember: give a real programmer a more powerful piece of hardware...
AR> the rest is in his hands!!!
YEEEEES! ;)
Good Luck...
... Hackers do it till dawn.
Well, that’s unlikely. At least take it by capacity, no matter what z80 you have,
reading and writing to memory is 3 clock cycles. Ha 68020 (A1200) - 2. Not a byte, but a long word (four bytes). Plus a pipeline, instruction cache, many registers,
random addressing. If we talk about the zero level (68000 - A500/A600), then there
read-write is 4 cycles. Words (2 bytes). It is unlikely that in a sprinter the work with memory is organized to the limit of the processor. Those. Surely memory slows down operations. On the A500/A600, the memory works synchronously with the processor and there are no brakes. It’s ridiculous to talk about internal operations. No eight-bit (and only partly 16
bit, emulated through eight bits) arithmetic/logic can not be compared with true
32 bit.
With best wishes, John.
===> #/FUCK/# *mUlTiMeDiA*, #/MAKE/# more $dEmOs$ ===>
IM> video mode in which it will be possible to display planes that will
IM> be filled in hardware with a texture located in RAM.
IM> It is possible to implement in hardware any other necessary
IM> commands that the Z80 does not have. Give suggestions.
Wouldn’t you like to immediately install a 3D-oriented math processor graphics with texture filling like 3Dfx on a PC, and make hardware emulation of math commands in the Spectrum ROM!
Look at what most vector games suffer from - slowness!
Read books about creating such programs, creating circles, ellipses, and
other geometric shapes, and... make hardware emulation of such
shapes and fill them with textures, especially since the graphic modes are not great!
All the best. /──────────────────────\ [ Fantasy World - Rulez ]
Sincerely, │ Wanderer 'Sagacious' │ [ Getting up early - Must Die]
─────────────────── ────\──────────────────────/ [ Station 106.8 - Rulez ]
... Life is not as simple as you think. It is much simpler...
VS> Wouldn’t you immediately install a math processor oriented towards 3D graphics
VS> with texture filling like 3Dfx on a PC, and make hardware emulation
VS> of mathematics commands in Spectrum ROM !
yes, and change Z80 to PII. so as not to worry.
Good Luck...
... PC's are Tools, The Amiga's an Instrument.
Get Msg, Max!
06 Dec 97 04:36, Max Romanoff reported to Vyacheslav Mednonogov about {Sprinter}:
MR> screw yourself? Those. their idea is to make iron. As I
MR> understood. Maybe they will make it more advanced: the hardware will look at the bus,
MR> and when selecting certain codes, it will do its job.
Moreover, two codes: #ED, #xx - isn’t it too cool?
IMHO (with all due respect to F. Peters), isn’t it time to stop? “You cannot
embrace the immensity” (c) K.P.
MR> so... of course.. Oh, this is a rotten idea...
Not rotten, but oh-so-long. Even longer than MOA made the hard drive controller
:)))
Warm greetings, Slava!
VM> Moreover, two codes: #ED, #xx - isn’t it too cool?
5-10 packages of programmable logic ;)
VM> IMHO (with all due respect to F. Peters), isn’t it time to stop?
VM> “You cannot embrace the immensity” (c) K.P.
The proverb about you know the cat.
VM> Not rotten, but very long. Even longer than MOA was made by the
VM> hard drive controller :)))
No, it’s rotten. because this is 99% an empty market and delaying
exit by talking about new modes and new hardware.
Good Luck...
... "You've got a plan?"
"Yeah -- let's not get killed."
"Brilliant!"
Greetings, Max!
─────────────── ─────────────────────── ────────────────────── ───────────────────
In ancient times (07 Dec 97), Ser Max wrote on a scroll Vitaly Samoylov,
Bequeathing "Sprinter", and today (09 Dec 97) I decided intervene:
────────────────────────────────── ──────────────────────── ─────────────────────
MR> Vitaly is that you?
Yeah, I guess so!
MR> ...why did you tell Igor Maznitsa about Sprinter?
VM> You understand, you can implement anything this way - it will be
VM> cooler than matarola ;) Another 200 super-cool commands!
Gee. The motor also has a ladder mechanism for other people's commands...
With best wishes - Andrey Khristov (ha...@robin.alt.ru)
[Team Horse Aviation] [Team beer, girls & sofa]
[Team For Garage] [Team Khasansky border guards]
VS> I meant: _nanomore_, and not the same (motherboard accelerator with 3D
VS> calculations)!
my opinion is that today, computers like
the sprinter are not residents.
VS> I just thought of writing here a game like ELITE, but I feel there will be
VS> strong brakes (in both senses)!
don’t tell. You can do everything very well. even with a turbo.
Good Luck...
... A couple of Pentiums is all you need - to do a good grilled steak.
MR> Are you, my friend, a pervert?! ;)
I don’t argue! I've seen a lot :)
MR> The thing is that fat processors
MR> have a coprocessor interface, which Zilog does not have. and this
MR> will have to be done programmatically. Those. transfers and other hemorrhoids....
Programmatically - not much more complicated than calculations in calculator mode.
But what opportunities!!!
As a result, they will come to a separate graphics process, a separate input-output process
, etc.
Forward, friends - to the Amiga I'll meet you!!!
SZ> Programmatically, it’s not much more complicated than calculations in calculator mode.
It should be said that in MMU the data has a good bit depth.
SZ> But what opportunities!!!
For example, I see more opportunities in installing a 380 zilog. There
there are 4 sets of registers. and they are 32-bit. (there are still a lot of goodies,
division and multiplication, etc. plus - compatible with the Z80).
SZ> Forward friends - to the Amiga for a meeting!!!
by the way, yes, why reinvent the wheel?
Good Luck...
... Windows is Irrelevent. It's existance is futile.
Andrey is that you?
...why were you telling Vyacheslav Mednonogov about the Sprinter?
AK> Gee. The motor also has a mechanism for stepping on other people's commands...
What does 'too' mean? He is. but not on the Z80... And how they are going
to do this is not clear. True, maybe they didn’t mean the commands themselves, but some actions with the system?
Good Luck...
... Stacker?! I just use del c:\windoze\. POOF! 5 Megs!
JS> Well, that’s unlikely. At least take it by bit size, no matter what z80 you have,
JS> reading-writing to memory is 3 cycles. Ha 68020 (A1200) - 2. Just not bytes,
JS> but a long word (four bytes). Plus a pipeline, instruction cache, many
JS> registers, random addressing. If we talk about zero (68000 -
JS> A500/A600), then there is a 4-cycle read-write. Words (2 bytes). It is unlikely that in
JS> sprinter work with memory is organized at the processor limit. Those. Surely
JS> memory is slowing down operations. On the A500/A600, the memory works synchronously
JS> with the processor and there are no brakes. It’s funny to talk about internal operations
JS>. No eight-bit (and only partly 16-bit, emulated
JS> through eight bits) arithmetic/logic can not be compared with truly 32-bit.
well, in general, if everything is calculated theoretically, then yes, of course those processors are 3-4 times faster... but: I was talking about a specific implementation in the A500 for example... there is a serious slowdown in the chipram-e... ;|
With best regards.
Andrey.
MR> what does 'too' mean? He is. but not on the Z80... And how they are going
MR> to do this is not clear. True, maybe they didn’t mean the
MR> commands themselves, but some actions with the system?
I didn’t mean the Z80 - there seems to be something older there?
Or am I a brake?
Is it just me or is this “proposal to introduce new commands” just
delaying time? In my opinion (strictly IMHO) the sprinter is not ready yet and this
offer serves as a good (not in my eyes) excuse not to
sell/release a computer due to its unreadiness. How long will it take to add new teams? and then re-wire the boards? (or ROM
overwrite). bad. explain where I'm wrong, please.
Regards,
Random
--
Lord of Chaos.
e-mail: ran...@cybermail.net
Concern Chaos WWW HQ: http://www.cybermail.net/~random/
Hello All.
Rather than bother with nonsense (IMHO this is the subject) it would be better if they made it to the Spectrum
a normal modem baud at 115000, or at least at 14400!
But the first is better - here are the IBM devices they will envy!
Me, indeed, including.
Evgeny
Greetings, Vitaly!
In the echo of ZX.SPECTRUM, you wrote a letter
for Max Romanoff. It was 09-11-97, at 01:16:48.
VS> I meant: _like_, and not the same (motherboard accelerator with 3D
calculations)!
VS> I just thought of writing a game like ELITE, but I feel it will be
strong
In principle, on the sprinter there is a mode in which when drawing contours,
automatically
the entire plane is filled. and the elite looks great at 21MHz! :)
VS> All the best. /──────────────────────\ [ Fantasy World - Rulez
]
VS> Sincerely, │ Wanderer 'Sagacious' │ [ Getting up early - Must
Die]
VS> ─────────────────────── \──────────────────────/ [Station 106.8 - Rulez
]
All the best, Mr. Vitaly Samoylov
That’s actually all I wanted to say
on the topic of “Sprinter”.
Sincerely, Denis.
-+- SMM version 1.05
AR> Well, in general, if everything is calculated theoretically, then yes, of course those
AR> processors are 3-4 times faster... but: I was talking about a specific implementation in
AR> A500 for example... there in the chipram it is observed serious slowdown
AR> of the process... ;|
You're wrong. Just in the A500/A600 the percent works to its full, let's say, small, strength. It is on the A1200 that the memory (chip) slows down the processor.