and again about standards

GS> So the point is that at least the _standard_ ports remain
GS> as they are. So that programs running on the standard Spectrum do not go crazy
GS> with homemade products...

Provided that this program is written wisely. Example - port #FD. How many
times can we say that it DOES NOT EXIST!!!

FP>> In principle, you are right. But think carefully, are you not joining
FP>> the ranks of those electronics engineers who endlessly produce the same devices
FP>> that are not compatible with each other? After all, we already have: 1) 3
FP>> hard drive controllers (ATM, Scorpion, Profi). The
FP>> existence of the controller from the company "Slot" and the controller as part of the
FP>> multicard is questionable. 2) 3 mouse interfaces - AY, Kempston and via
FP>> serial port. Through the serial port you can disable -
FP>> there will be 2 actually used.

GS> But in vain, when using a multicard, sticking a standard
GS> mouse into a standard
GS> card seems quite logical...

This mouse is standard for a PC. And Speccy has its own standard, founded by Sinclair - Kempston mouse. Just like on the Amiga, the standard mouse is its own, although
you can also cut off the pussy one. But why pervert?In addition, Kempston mouse
is technically made much better than the pisish one. Kempston I can read whenever and however I want. An RS-232 mouse requires the use of interrupts, since it
throws data when it wants, and it must be caught, otherwise we
will not read anything at all. And the use of hardware interrupts on Speccy
will require immeasurable perversions for it all to work normally. You can,
of course, do it like in Profi, only then you will have to be upset that you cannot
use the mouse in toys with musical accompaniment, and indeed you cannot use DI in general.

FP>> 3) 3 serial ports - Profi, ATM, as part of a multicard.

GS> In reality there are much more of them. They perverted who was into what...
GS> By the way
GS> there was also a “standard” serial port - in Interface I.

I deliberately did not take this into account, because this is RS-232C - a neutered port,
containing only RXD and TXD, as in Scorpio.

FP>> 4) 5 methods of memory expansion (Scorpion, Profi, ATM-1, ATM-2, port
FP>> #7FFD. 5) 3 extended screens - Profi, ATM, circuit from V.M.G. 6) 4
FP>> printer interface - BB55, Lprint-3, Scorpion, KAY.

GS> Did you forget about my version? ;) See "Radio Amateur" 10/1992, by the way
GS> the only option that used only the addresses of the standard
GS>printer.

Have not read it. А что ты там напридумвал?

GS> Проблема только в софте, не предусматривающем поддержку разных
GS> аппаратных решений. Using the appropriate drivers. A working
GS> example of a program with
GS> drivers - my T02 terminal...

Yes. But not everything is so simple. К примеру, в новой ОС нельзя использовать
загружаемый драйвер винчестера...

FP>> А потом появится еще один и еще один... Только не подумай, что я
FP>> наезжаю. Я просто хочу остановить этот процесс, направить развитие
FP>> Speccy в правильном направлении.

GS> Только поезд уже ушёл...

Hе совсем. Сейчас процесс идет в обратном направлении.

OB>>> Если ВАМ хочется стандаpта, возьмите за основу именно Спектpум-128
OB>>> firm version, и доpабатывайте его, и вешайте еа него пеpифеpию.

FP>> По сути дела ты опять прав, но есть одно "но". Where can you find
FP>> branded Speccy?

GS> Software compatibility is enough. Hа разумном уровне...

Вот именно, что на разумном.

GS> Должны быть:
GS> 1) Аппаратный стандарт на шину. Чтобы любую "примочку" можно было
GS> воткнуть в
GS> любой "стандартный" Спектрум. Такой стандарт я уже предлагал и он
GS> прекрасно
GS> работает, хотя и имеет несколько принципиальныхrestrictions. But otherwise
GS> and not
GS> maybe, for example, look at the same process on IBM - ISA,
GS> VESA,
GS> PCI buses.
GS> 2) Software standard for drivers. So that on the Spectrum with an arbitrary
GS> set of
GS> hardware “bells and whistles” you can run the
GS> “standard”
GS> program without any problems.

This is all true. But I repeat - not everything can be done using drivers. Here's another example
- in my OS you can't use a loadable upper memory driver - there's simply
nowhere to load it.

FP>> I suggest choosing one of them as a basis. IMHO the most suitable
FP>> standard is Scorpio. This is the only machine that is being developed
FP>> and produced.

GS> Only, unfortunately, it is distinguished by its particularly “curly”
GS> circuit solutions, which IMHO makes it unsuitable for the
GS> standard. And no
GS> needs this...

I'm talking about port addresses. The iron itself can be plowed as you wish.

bye, with all sorts of Wishes, Fedin Pavel!

20 May 97 09:13 -- George Shepelev told Fedin Pavel about and again about
standards:

OB>>> And if we are to develop a standard, then a standard for writing software.

FP>> This is true. But to standardize software, it is necessary to standardize
FP>> and hardware.

GS> Not necessarily! Drivers are designed to convert
GS> specifications of program calls into calls to specific hardware.

The Peters company has gone even further, which makes it possible to programmatically configure hardware in its computer
for a specific program or game.

Warm greetings, Slava.

Sun 25-May-97 00:43, Fedin Pavel (2:5020/659.55) wrote a letter to George
Shepelev:

FP> I can make everything loadable - many different himem.drv,
FP> mouse.drv, sound.drv, serial.drv, parallel.drv will appear, hires.drv... But how many
FP> will it take in RAM and what will the OS installation be like? This will be
FP> worse than messing around with Windows! :-((((Which is exactly what happens in IS-DOS.

No need to drive, please. In iS-DOS there is a very useful program
sv.com. unload
extra/unnecessary ones, then sv.com & boot.com. these
drivers/residents end up in the same file with the system itself andaccordingly
everything is loaded quickly. This was invented a long time ago.

It’s similar with ram_disk. sv_image.com (ram to file) & image.com (file image
to ram).

FP> I remember one of my friends struggled for 1.5 hours to start the printer -
FP> tried the drivers at random. This is only for the printer.

Sometimes it is useful to call on logic to help. If this does not help,
it is useful to read the help pages.

With best wishes, Vladimir.

25 May 97 00:43 -- Fedin Pavel told George Shepelev about and again about
standards:

FP> Speccy does not yet have a video system with a character generator in its own RAM.

See, Peters offers a downloadable character generator for more than 3000
characters (probably so the Chinese can have all their place hieroglyphs :)

Warm greetings, Slava.

VL> Please don’t drive me. iS-DOS has a very useful
VL> program sv.com. You fill the system with the necessary
VL> drivers/residents once, unload the extra/unnecessary ones, then sv.com &
VL> boot.com. And after that, all these drivers/residents end up in one
VL> file with the system itself and, accordingly, everything loads quickly. This
VL> was invented before the hell out of time.

I’m not driving, and about sv.comI've known for a long time. Только вот при инсталляции все равно
придется помучиться, когда файл еще не создан...

FP> RAM. Although even if there is, it still needs to be thrown there
FP> from somewhere...

There are even several options. Mainly based on video cards from IBM.
By default, there is “Latin firmware”, and you can upload the Russian font from
the disk drive or screw when the system starts; working without a system in the late 90s
is simply ridiculous...

FP> Secondly, I think about 80x25 text mode - there are too many people who want it.
FP> With existing video systems on ATM and Profi, as well as with the new GMX
FP> it is quite easy to do it. But on Profi nothing will work with colors
FP> - the symbol bitmap will be 6x8 in size. :-(((

Even 8*8 does not give decent text quality. You need at least 10*8, and better
14*8 or 16*8, these are standard sizes on EGA and VGA...

[...]

FP> Yes, but you can’t get enough of all the perversions of drivers... Of course, this
FP> is the only way out, but still only within reasonable limits.

That’s the point and the point is that the only one...

FP> Of course, I can make everything loadable - there will be many
FP> different himem.drv, mouse.drv, sound.drv, serial.drv, parallel.drv,
FP> hires.drv... But how much will it take in RAM

I already wrote, it won’t take that much, because you _don’t_ need_ to load everything existing driver options _simultaneously_, but only what is needed for a specific
configuration...

FP> and what will OS installation look like?

OS installation! ;) Просто нужно сделать удобный пользовательский интер-
фейс, встроенную систему автодиагностики и документацию на русском...

FP> Это же будет похуже возни с Windows! :-(((( Что как раз и происходит
FP> в IS-DOS.

Это уже претензии к разработчикам конкретных систем...

С уважением George

GS>> convert the specifications of program calls into calls to
GS>> specific hardware.

VM> The Peters company has gone even further, which makes it possible to programmatically configure the hardware (!) in its
VM> computer for a specific program
VM> or game.

The solution is certainly interesting, but will it be convenient for the user?
I downloaded it, for example, from Ehi program, launched it, and it just hung, littering the screen with all sorts of binary garbage. And then you will have to guess which hardware configuration to substitute?
Well, this is certainly an interesting solution for “advanced” programmers and
experimenters with different special systems, but for the average user IMHO
you need a simple and reliable option, which is easy to understand using the detailed
documentation. And it will be very difficult to make a good dock for such a “monster”!
By the way, some Pentium computers can also be reconfigured by software, where the work of the chipset is flashed into FLASH memory. But in life they are driven
in standard IBM configurations, which are not the best at all, but
there is software for them...
Apparently "Peters" is a dead end... :(

Sincerely, George

30 May 97 06:44, George Shepelev wrote to Vyacheslav Mednonogov:
[...]
GS> user? For example, I downloaded a program from Ehi, launched it, and it
GS> just hung, littering the screen with all sorts of binary garbage. And then
GS> will have to guess what hardware configuration to substitute for it? Nat, this
Yeah, this is how it will be until they stop perverting with crooked protections
and humpbacked loaders. And they won’t stop writing software specifically for
PENTAGON-128.

Oleg

... I prefer the inscription “No entry” to the inscription “No exit.”