Discussion

19 Jun 97 00:09, Cyril Moorzin reported by Vyacheslav Mednonogov about {Discussion}:

VM>> While the hands of hackers are only suffocating the Spectrum - how many good
VM>> initiatives there were and they all went to pieces, how many projects are frozen due to
VM>> fear of excessive hacker zeal :((

CM> Funny assumption. Examples? Or does it mean that releasing something in the
CM> world did not make sense, since the first sale (to a potential hacker) will be
CM> the last?

No. What it means is that having once released a game/program with the brightest
hopes, and being brutally defrauded by hackers, the author will not engage
in the second project. There are plenty of examples (few people were enough for the second or third serious
project, unless we are talking about pure enthusiasm, of course)

CM> Due to the small market for Sinclair’s products,

Small, of course, depending on what to compare with, however, domestic crafts for
PC (such as “Encyclopedia of Beer”, “Faberge Eggs”, ... or translations of average ones). toys
into Russian) sell in quantities of 2-3 thousand (licensed, of course) So with
similar man-time costs, sales are approximately the same. So far...

CM> such things should be done either for the soul and for free, if you are afraid,

or do nothing at all?

CM> or not pay attention and come up with something,how to seduce the buyer,
CM> so that he buys.

lotteries, prizes, discounts? many have tried (XL-Design, SoftLand...) -
not very good reviews. And indeed, we are selling a program, not lottery tickets.
Advertising used to be fashionable. An example is "Dizzy Y", where part of the levels
had to contain a fabulous journey through the fantasy world of the advertised
edition. It ended, as always, badly :( - the book came out before the game, advertisers
refused to pay, Seryoga had to urgently correct the plot.

VM>> There was a sentence here - “good hackers need to bow down
VM>>, then they (maybe) won’t break anything.” Imnho,
VM>> they just didn’t crush them in due time :(

CM> Who pressed?

So I say, it’s a pity that no one :))
Seriously, in St. Petersburg we managed to form the opinion that being (or at least being called a hacker) is bad. We only have one hacker - Chris
:))

CM> And if we are talking about the Spectrum, then it is pointless. People who transferred
CM> games from tapes to TR-DOS (meaning without the Magic button and with
CM> adding features such as saving the score or game state)
CM> could formally be called hackers, but did not consider themselves as such.

They did not strangle the Spectrum :), on the contrary, they developed it.

CM> As soon as the first defense appeared,the first fingers
CM> appeared like a fan.

Well, there are no absolutely fundamental ones. Since ancient times, everyone has had a positive attitude towards hacking and adapting imported
software :))

VM>> And as an example, here recently a “hacker-anarchist” (stalwarker) who had not been suppressed in his
VM>> time appeared - a typical representative :)
CM> You are wrong - atypical. Don’t insult the noble profession :)

To me the word “hacker” is like a red rag to a bull :))) I don’t care for myself, for
the guys I know who got burned by hacker tricks once and never again
:(( And qualifications, as you know, don’t come right away. So all that remains is
- either spit on the crafts of beginners, or cry when they see demo version and knowing
that the full version will never be released :(

Warm greetings, Slava!

16 Jun 97 09:53, Alex Letaev reported to Vyacheslav Mednonogov about {Re: Discussion}:

VM>> glitches (2AI: FFC will immediately buy into this? :))

AL> FFC is friendly with the head, and with the eyes (capable of seeing the insides of
AL> programs!), so VRYATLY!!!! :-)))) The style of work has the ability
AL> to be remembered and relates to a specific person!!!

But still, he can try :))

AL> And as for the protection in the form of a flight to the base :-))) in June: similar protection just
AL> HAS BEEN WORKED on branded disks distributed for some time
AL> by Inforcom (then it went bug-free version)!!!

As already noted, protection with scratching is the most unstable - maybe that was the problem. Although during installation there is a _very_ strict control - five-fold
read-write with a mismatch of no more than 2 bytes (when reading, a deviation of +-10% is allowed, i.e. 20 bytes per 512-byte sector).
However, the percentage of returns is not higher than that of conventional disks.

Other glitches could not appear there - we waited two months until there was no confidence that everything was OK.

AL> In general, the best type of protection
AL> is an unreadable (possibly unformatted) disk! :-)))))))

:))

Warm greetings, Slava!

Someone's FFC didn't come to the last Inlight -just like SoftStart :))

There were fingerings even then. "I/We are the best hacker/group in the world! No one will decipher our xorka." Fingering remains to this day :)

VM> Well, there are no absolutely fundamental ones. Since ancient times, everyone had a positive attitude towards hacking and adapting
VM> imported software :))

Yeah... Break someone else's - don't hide ours... Rob the rich...

VM> To me the word “hacker” is like a red rag for a bull :))) Not for myself
VM> I care for the guys I know who once got burned by hacker
VM> tricks and more no, no :((

Uh-huh. The guys kicked out the work without protection... It began to be sold to everyone who was not
too lazy... It's not the fault of those who sold it, but... the hackers :(

VM> And the qualification, as you know, doesn't come right away. So
VM> is left to either spit on the crafts of beginners, or cry, seeing
VM> the demo version and knowing that the full version will not work never :(

Because of hackers. :-\

Eh, Slava, if you lived in Moscow, I would be able to instill in you broader views :)
Hackers are an integral part of the computer world. They are not going anywhere. If you, in your opinion, have managed to instill contempt for hacking in your city, this does not mean that you don’t have hackers, they just sit and break things. quietly...

VM> Warm greetings,
VM> Slava!

WithBest regards, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

VM> Still, maybe I’ll try :))

OK! You can try it! :-))))) We haven’t lost our sense of smell yet!!! :-))))

VM> As already noted, protection with scratching is the most unstable -
VM> maybe that was the problem. Although during installation there is a _very_ strict
VM> control - five times read-write with a mismatch of no more than 2
VM> bytes (when reading, a deviation of +-10% is allowed, i.e. 20 bytes per
VM> 512-byte sector).
VM> However, the percentage of returns is no higher than that of conventional disks.

Isn’t it better to write a couple of sectors on different tracks with a drive with a high write current, and here it is a _floating_ sector. What are the statistics of
exchanges in Inforcom in 5020? And the protection really worked _in vain_, since
many bought this version in Inforcom!

VM> The rest of the glitches could not appear there - we waited for two months,
VM> until there was confidence that everything was OK.

There were no other glitches.

VM> Why didn't FFC come to the last Inlight - just like SoftStart :))

Firstly, we are fundamentally not demomakers, secondly, I am a family man, well
and thirdly, we were reluctant to go anywhere!!! :-))) And on 97 enlight they also don’t know who will be with FFC! A SoftBALL, that’s why it’s SoftFINISH!!!! :-)))))

Sincerely, Alex from FFC COMPUTERS.

[killed]

YM>> It’s stuck... It’s far away, you say, it’s not closed? Well, okay... Just
YM>> first you need to figure out why all this worries you so much?
EM> Why do I still care about the Spectrum?????!!!!!!
EM> So I’m sitting here on P166/32/1.6Gb, and someone’s Spectrum “suddenly”
EM> worried me-
EM> ?????!!!!!! I don't know myself. I'm probably sick.

Guys, let's live together!

VM> (or at least being called a hacker) is bad. We only lose
VM> one hacker - Chris :))

But the restaurateur is a prog, he is also a hacker, and what’s bad about this type of hacker???

DG> How did you in St. Petersburg secure a “green road” for yourself during the release
DG> UFO2?

Well, I didn’t run, I didn’t ask every hacker - “don’t break my program” (although
this option was initially considered :)) Good
relations with traders turned out to be much more important. Fortunately, St. Petersburg traders are mostly
highly moral people :))

DG> And how did you manage to come to an agreement with the SPbZXNet sysops, since this game is not located
DG> at the stations?

I don’t know. Didn't make an agreement. IMHO, everything is complicated - the overall atmosphere
was influenced by Logros, XL-Design (represented by Rachkin), and many others
(Welcome, SoftLand, ...). Well, the ruling elite in SpbZXNet has its head on its shoulders :)

DG> I’m not trying to persuade you to dance in circles with a person you don’t like

And most hackers usually cause hostility with their exorbitant
ambitions and inflated self-esteem. True, not all <-I'm hinting at you :))

DG> (this should actually be done by the people who have taken it upon themselves
DG> to distribute your works...)

Also a problem. If we imagine theoretically that the protections have stopped breaking, the speed of distribution of programs will sharply decrease - the thirst for the author's vanity will not be quenched, laurels of fame and public
recognition will float by :)) And for any author this is sureI want it no less than any
hacker. Only he chooses an honest path for this...

DG> but to despise a coder just because he can hack your protection
DG> is not very nice, to put it mildly...

Well, this just causes inner admiration - you hid and hid the whole
day, and the hacker found everything in half a day :)))

VM>> Imnho, they just didn’t add them to their time :(

DG> Come on. Give it a go. You can start with me.

Come on, Dima, why are you doing this :( Moreover, it’s already late :)))

DG> When you’ve killed off all the hackers, start strangling
DG> competitive gamemakers,

If there were a lot of them (very many), then you’d have to think about this
direction. For now, the situation is such that it’s time to include makers in the “Red Book”.
But there are too many hackers - it’s time to start shooting :)) Leave
only the most outstanding! (you, Milun and Chris :)) It will already be possible to buy you
:))

VM>> And as an example - here recently a “hacker-anarchist” (stalwarker) who was not suppressed in
VM>> appeared in his time - a typical representative :)
DG> This is a typical representative of lamers. And violent ones at that. It has nothing in common with the word
DG> “hacker”.

Perhaps. I haven’t come across such scum for a long time :((

DG> The only thing I want to prove to you is that there are hackers, just like game makers
DG>different. It was thanks to the hackers that Specky didn't die four years ago
DG>. Thousands of disk adaptations, hundreds of decently restored programs.
DG> Now that domestic commercial programs began to appear,
DG> hackers began to interfere, so let's crush them all

Exactly. You played your role - retire. There is no need to parasitize on others
(excuses about “restoring”, “fixing” don’t work when the authors are alive)

DG> I just didn’t expect that you don’t see the differences between juvenile
DG> hooligans and professionals :(

Someone is drawn to Samara folklore :)) At first Oberon & SOK scolded, and
loss started the same song :-?

DG> And doing some good hacking work (not related to
DG> theft, of course) is much better than once again “amazing
DG> the world” with a logic toy with pornographic inserts or a
DG> sprite editor 3x3.

Well, that’s right, a person starts small. If everything had been based on
simple commerce, then after the first time he would have realized that it didn’t pay off due to
low quality/playability - and would have given birth to something like this,
giant. And so he understands one thing - he has fallen into the mill of “good hacker work”
- and thinks: “Why the hell do I need all this?” At most it will then be enough for a 4x4 sprite editor :(((

DG> PS: I won’t mention that all of today’s author-programmers started
DG> as hackers or, at least, more than once got into someone else’s code with a debugger and
DG> even (it’s scary to think!) changed something there ;)

Like: don’t put pressure on hackers, otherwise you might accidentally suppress future authors?
Maybe you’re right...

DG> PPS: It would also be stupid to wonder if you
DG> used the adapted gens, art studio and whether you sent Nikolay Rodionov 5
DG> bucks for DCUshka ;)

Who is to blame? Hackers again :))) If there was no other choice, I would
naturally buy DCU from Rodionov, Gens4D from MOA. And N. Rodionov might still
not have left to sell modems :))

DG> And to ask how many legally acquired and
DG> registered programs you use on the Pentium, it would be
DG> simply immodest...

The Pentium does not help dies - besides Russia there are many other countries. But
if such a situation were everywhere, they would still be sitting on the MK-61 :))

DG> Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

zy\ Dima, don’t take it to heart - I love “cool jokes with bummers” (c)

With warm regards,Слава!

21 Jun 97 20:09, Alex Letaev reported by Vyacheslav Mednonogov about {Re: Discussion}:

AL> Isn’t it better to write a couple of sectors on different tracks with a drive with
AL> a promoted write current, and here it is a _floating_ sector.

Yes, we would like something simpler. Then this thing works on the Amiga.

AL> And what are the statistics of exchanges in Inforcom in 5020?

Amazingly low (not only for me, but also for ZXF) - about 1/100 (what
Zonov gave back to me the other day).
However, perhaps IFC acted simply, because:
a) if the protected disk did not go on one computer, it could well have gone to
another;
b) protection with scratching very often has the ability to work normally after
several readings (riddles of physics :)
Well, for IFC, I usually try to check all the disks (Moscow is not a low beam, after all)

With warm regards, Glory!

23 Jun 97 22:55, Ivan Gudkov reported by Vyacheslav Mednonogov about {Discussion}:

IG> IMHO, not only - after all, the number of spektrumists, whatever one may say,
IG> is decreasing. There are even fewer hackers left now.

In 1994 it seemed exactly the same :)) However, of course the number is decreasing:(

IG> platform/ etc, but still not hackers, since Spectrum game makers
IG> in general do not count on any material reward....

:(( IMHO, on the contrary, this is the rare case when a hobby can coincide with
work (if it weren’t for hackers ;) Would a material
reward for SOTF really bother you?

IG> And the production of software is provoked by the interest of the process itself/waste
IG> of free time.

Well, it’s interesting once. And then it’s less and less interesting.

how to open the door to the hangar in CS? There is a button, but...

C Warm greetings, Slava!

23 Jun 97 14:27, Evgeny Milun reported by Vyacheslav Mednonogov about {Discussion}:

EM> Yes, by the way, there is a simpler way (though perhaps less
EM> reliable) - at the formatting stage, make pseudo-failures sectors.
EM> The technology is terribly simple, but without a special copier (and I have
EM> never seen one) you can’t copy.

Most likely, the Amiga will copy :(((

I tried to make a “lightweight” protection with scratching, but without
rewriting the sector (in this case the disk could be sealed, the location of the defect in
the data field on the sector would remain fixed - in short, the failure-free protection
would increase to an absolute level :))
To check such protection, it was necessary to read the sector several times
to determine from which byte the “discrepancies” begin. And what do you think -
one of the Amiga copiers copied this case :(((

With warm regards, Glory!

Friday June 20, 1997 15:59, Evgeny Milun wrote to Yury Matveyev:

EM> And when they offer you better protection - “fuck off,
EM> it’s none of your business.” Where is the logic?

You just don’t understand refusals? Do you also need to justify them? Are you familiar with the phrase
“the editors do not review and do not return”?

EM> Spectrum edition,” think for yourself... Maybe you will understand... Probably...
EM> But, I’m not sure...

Yeah... Do you understand yourself?

EM> And this is the idea: “Protection is the end in itself of the magazine”! And it sounds like ! Just in
EM> style: “the main thing in a magazine is a quick leaflet, if it doesn’t exist, the magazine
EM> is lame.”

By the way, I didn’t see something in the 3rd issue of the quick leaflet :( Ay-yay-yay... You promised to do it... You disassembled mine... Maybe you need help?

I hope you understood correctly. - I _don’t_offer_ my help, don’t rush
agree.

EM> Should I throw it into the echo (fortunately, it’s designed in the form of a micro-demo)?

Come on, come on, I want to look at the demo! Maybe she’ll wipe the nose of all the Inlights?

EM> Are you seriously trying to tell me again that no one cares about you? offered his
EM> help?

First, make a quick reader, then we’ll see...

EM> And yet you say “the most popular and beloved magazine in the country, Abydna,
EM> yeah-ah-ah?

What?offended? Well, the most popular, well, you don’t like it... What’s offensive?

Dmitry (OLDMAN).

Tuesday June 24, 1997 12:15, Evgeny Milun wrote to Sergei Novikov:

SN>> In short, in the absence of protection, the magazine would be bought 2 times less, and
SN>> if the protection was at the ZF level, this would have virtually no effect on demand
SN>>. Is it clear now? ;)

EM> Actually, I’m not talking about that a little. I was just interested to know why
EM> for all these 21 issues, SPF protection not only has not undergone any
EM> serious changes, but in general still retains one of the most

Well, this question has been answered for you...

EM> let's begin. Moreover, this is another sore point for YM. Yes, and

Why sick?

EM> I started this conversation only because someone (I don’t remember exactly
EM> who, but it seems Grigoryev) once said that the SPF has one of the
EM> best protections. So I became interested...

The saddest thing is that you yourself believe in this nonsense :(

Dmitry (OLDMAN).

Answering yld Tuesday, the 24 of June 1997:

EM> And I started this conversation only because someone (I don’t remember
EM> exactly who, but it seems Grigoryev) once said that the SPF has one of
EM> the best defenses. So I became interested...

I have not seen such a statement here. Maybe you're confusing something?

Hasta la vista, Evgeny! See you in Eden!

·∙ Novikov Sergei AKA Spirit/CS ∙·
[Team ZX ASM] [Team AMD - Amiga Must Die]
[Team Aries Rulez Forever]

Saturday June 21, 1997 01:47, Vyacheslav Mednonogov wrote to Dmitry Grigoryev:

VM> I fully admit it. But the point was that a hacker is able to understand the
VM> program no worse than the author. So let them work :) Otherwise, immortality
VM> insert + AY music + intro + support for holes-dosa - IMHO - it’s much easier. And
VM> is also called - “figured it out”

So, did you try to play the initial versions of the games I proposed? ;)

DG>> have you and other gamemakers already dealt with the rest of the problems? So
DG>> our programmers from hackers, it turns out, are running to other
DG>> platforms, abandoning unfinished work?

VM> What did you think? The closest example to you: why doesn’t ZH-2 come out -
VM> there is a risk of not paying off. There is a risk - there is no interest in doing it. And why is there a risk?
VM> - hackers.

Well, for ZH2 you can make quite good protection ;) You take a needle in your hand and... yes
what am I explaining to you ;) Plus Xorks, which will take a fair amount of time to hack, +
some more surprises that I don’t really want to talk about (you never know...
they might come in handy ;) In short, there will be enough protection for a week, and then it all depends from
competent distribution. In addition, I, in general, did not intend to strangle the hackers,
which means I have a chance to come to an agreement with some of them ;)) About the fact that the game
will be bought,I don’t even mention it ;)

No, we are not afraid of hackers, and we are confident in the payback, it’s just that during the production process you have to live on something... In other words - SPONSOR!!! ;)

VM> I can give many examples. In many cases, it doesn’t even occur to people
VM> to start a second project.
VM> And all the “other problems” have the same root :))

Slav, get off my pet peeve ;) There are many problems, hackers are one of them,
I agree, but far from the most intractable. And the main thing is the transition of users
to other platforms, which has nothing at all to do with hacker activity on
Spectrum.

VM> Well, I didn’t run around asking every hacker - “don’t break my program”
VM> (although such an option was initially considered :)) Much more important
VM> were good relations with traders. Fortunately, St. Petersburg traders -
VM> are mostly highly moral people :))

;) Did you buy many copies not in St. Petersburg? I know of about four full-fledged hacks that appeared almost immediately after the official release of UFO2. Four
hackers, versions of which (except mine) were sold in the first weeks in many
cities.

VM> who else (Welcome, SoftLand, ...). Well, the ruling elite in SpbZXNet -
VM> has its head on its shoulders :)

So do hackers have a conscienceесть...

Tue Jun 24 1997 AD; 02:40, Vyacheslav Mednonogov wrote to Dmitry Grigoryev:
VM> However, maybe Felix Arzumanyan and Ivan Gudkov will clarify
VM> the “abandonment” of their projects?
In my case, in general, several factors -
a mistake, IMHO, was the use of Masma - the most lousy -
disappearance of lines (fortunately, if this happened before our eyes), and there was a noticeable problem
there was a lack of memory for tags

then, this is the purchase of a modem + driving courses in the evenings - i.e.
about a month's break in work - from here all coding went to hell :((

plus dead spec - still, by the way :((

and any programmer is probably interested in "feeling" capabilities
of my new computer - PC, that is.

by the way, toys don’t take up my time yet - I hardly play games...
(10-20 minutes a week as max)

Although what am I talking about here - it’s all my fault :)

See you,
Ivan.

VM> Yes, we could use something simpler. Then this thing works on the Amiga.

According to my approximate sub-scales in the Nible mode on the Amiga, the Spectrum bit seems
to be 5 or even less than the Amiga bit. The probability of such copying is low, but
if it were like 10, then the sector picture for the Spectrum would be
repeated completely!

DG> Eh, Slava, if you lived in Moscow, I could instill in you broader
DG> views :) Hackers are an integral part of the computer world. They won't
DG> go anywhere. If you, in your opinion, have managed to instill contempt for hacking in your city
DG>, this does not mean that you don’t have hackers, they just
DG> sit and break things on the sly...

Crooks, thieves, bandits, speculators are an integral part of our world. They
will not go anywhere... Well, further in the text.
Offtopic, this is all already, in my opinion.

Andrew

Wednesday June 25 1997 00:28, Vyacheslav Mednonogov ─── Evgeny Milun:

VM> Most likely, the Amiga will copy :(((

VM> I tried to make a “lightweight” protection with scratching, but without
VM> overwriting the sector (in this case the disk could be sealed, the location
VM> of the defect in the data field on the sector would remain fixed - in short,
VM> the failure-free protection would increase to an absolute level :)) To
VM> checking such protection required reading the sector several times in order
VM> to determine from which byte the “discrepancies” begin. And what do you think
VM> - one of the Amiga copiers copied this case :(((
A). Is the sector still faulty? If so, then not “:(((", but
":((((((((" And if not, then there is still a chance.

Good luck! Evgeny.
───────────── ──────────────────────── ──────────────────────── ─────────────────
'... That's all... The world is on fire,
But the thunder will not subside - the Spirit of War,
it demands more."
ARIA'95, "Spirit of War"

AM> Well, you did a good job of the floating sector, but what’s the point, the most that can be done with it
AM> you can do this by checking its presence, and what’s the use of such a
AM> check, removed
AM> and live in peace :( , and it’s an extra headache.

I wrote about copy protection, not from a general hack! Protection from a general hack hack
does not have a standard scheme, and is individual for each author. And what to
corrupt, everyone will decide for themselves.

VM> without overwriting the sector (in this case the disk could be sealed,
VM> the location of the defect in the data field on the sector would remain
VM> fixed - in short, the failure-free protection would increase to
VM> the absolute level :))
VM> To check such protection, it was necessary to read the
VM> sector several times in order to determine from which byte the “discrepancies” begin. And
VM> what do you think - one of the Amiga copiers copied this thing:(((

The only copier on the Amiga that can do this is X-COPY, NIBL ​​mode. It
sees the Spectrum bit as several, but the probability of
such copying is still low.

Tuesday June 24 1997 02:00, Vyacheslav Mednonogov ─── Dmitry Grigoryev:

VM>>> Writing one sector is equivalent to “local” formatting.
DG>> Overwriting a sector is not equivalent to formatting.

VM> Let the experts judge us (MM, MK, MOA, etc) ...
VM> For some reason, I naively continue to believe that after rewriting the sector, any
VM> fictitious CRC errors, floating bits, unfinished data will
VM> be restored (if they are in the sector data field).
Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh! Yes, we are colleagues. :))))) I not only think exactly the same thing
but I have also been convinced from experience more than once that this is so.

Wednesday June 25 1997 00:33, Dmitry Grigoryev ─── Evgeny Milun:

DG> By the way, I didn’t see something in the 3rd issue of the quick page :( Ay-yay-yay...
“Fast” compared to what? With a steam locomotive ? By helicopter ? By starship ?
DG> You promised to do it... You disassembled mine...
And it was really funny. You can’t even imagine how many glitches there are.
DG> Maybe you need help?
No, thanks, we’ll handle it ourselves.
DG> I hope you understood correctly - I did. _I’m not_offering_ my help to you, don’t
DG> rush to agree.
No, what are you, I understood you correctly, it’s you who got me wrong.
I never said that the release of OBERON is on the verge of failure due to the lack
of a coder and an artist.

[.....]
DG> First, make a quick reader, then we'll see...
When we no longer know what to do/publish next, we'll
improve the reader. In the meantime, its speed is enough for normal viewing
of the text of articles.

25 Jun 97 17:13, Dmitry Grigoryev reported by Vyacheslav Mednonogov about
{Discussion}:

DG> So, have you tried to play the original versions of the games I proposed?

Where will they come from?

/skip/

DG> No, we are not afraid of hackers, and in We are sure of the payback, it’s just that in the process
DG> of production you have to live on something... In other words - SPONSOR!!! ;)

Isn’t that right? - did; received money; While you are doing the following, you are eating up
the money you received...

Warm greetings, Slava!

Good luck! Evgeny.
───────────── ──────────────────────── ──────────────────────── ─────────────────
'... That's all... The world is on fire,
But the thunder will not subside - the Spirit of War,
it demands more."
ARIA'95, "Spirit of War"

Wednesday June 25 1997 11:23, Sergei Novikov ─── Evgeny Milun:

[.....]

SN>>> Man, Remixed by SOK, OBR#1) contained obscene language in relation to
SN>>> towards STEP. Do you remember? In this case, I expect an apology :E

EM>> Well, since I not only “didn’t remember”, but also simply don’t understand
EM>> what you’re talking about (I _personally_ made these versions and didn’t insert anything like that into them
EM>>), then...

SN> Well, there you go. In the winter I said that you were very angry at STEP because of a glitch in
SN> published by Rebel Star, that's why you inserted curse words... ;( Look
SN> REBEL STAR/OBEROH#1 itself.
Well, I forgot. Sorry. I thought that since then (in March) this topic
seemed to be closed, then my answers to you satisfied.

Good luck Evgeny.

DG> Why sick?
Well, I don’t know. Ask him.

EM>> I started this conversation only because someone (I don’t remember exactly
EM>> who, but it seems Grigoryev) once said that the SPF has one of the
EM>> best defenses. So I became interested...

DG> The saddest thing is that you also believe in this nonsense yourself:(
What nonsense? That SPF has the best protection? I don’t believe it. That SPF didn’t improve
it because of purely ideological considerations? I don’t believe it either.

Wednesday June 25 1997 19:40, Dmitry Grigoryev ─── Evgeny Milun:

EM>>>> And, fortunately, he didn’t? I know his methods - non-standard
AL>>> Maybe Titus used this somewhere, but I haven’t seen it.
EM>> His version of the Novosibirsk ELITE-3.

DG> “I know his methods” ;) Do you even know how old this version is?
No. Tell. In my opinion, it was somewhere around the end of 94.
As far as I remember, until the summer-autumn of 96, very few people saw the Novosibirsk ELITE-3.

EM> No, thank you, we’ll handle it ourselves.

Don’t handle it, otherwise you would fulfill the promise given to “the whole country” on the pages
of my publication and write “a reader no worse.”

EM> When we no longer know what to do/publish next, then
EM> we will improve the reader too. In the meantime, its speed is enough for normal viewing
EM> of the text of articles.

No... It’s not enough... It’s very slow. Uncomfortable to read |-\

Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

25 Jun 97 13:04, Alex Letaev reported by Vyacheslav Mednonogov about {Re: Discussion}:

AL> seems like 5 or even less Amigov. The probability of such
AL> copying is low,

It’s small, but you shouldn’t take risks :))

Warm greetings, Slava!

25 Jun 97 12:55, Alex Letaev reported to Evgeny Milun about {Re: Discussion}:

AL> I was confused and trying. There was an opinion that the migration was insignificant, in
AL> comparison with the software assessment, which had clearly decreased. There are a lot of spektrumists, IMHO, I also think so. There was a mass exodus to Dandy+PC. Now the outflow/inflow
is approximately the same.

AL> but they became invisible in the markets, and this happened like an avalanche after March 8
AL>.

If you are talking about CDs, then people are simply full of games/Windows/offices and other
rubbish, and the total number of users has approximately settled down.

With warm greetings, Glory!

DG> Daragusha... If I undertake to analyze your works seriously, people will laugh at you for a long time
DG> ;)
You already threatened to do this once, haven’t you forgotten? Well, come on, come on.
Or maybe we’ll organize some kind of Championship? I say right away - you will win. Since you
made _much less_ programs than I did, therefore the total number of errors you have is less.

DG> And please list the glitches, only the glitches of the
DG> viewer that affected the operation of the SPF, since the viewer itself is not
DG> an independent product.
Look for yourself. You're an autor.

Sat Jun 28 1997 AD; 02:10, Vyacheslav Mednonogov wrote to Ivan Gudkov:

IG>> the mistake, IMHO, was the use of Masma - the lousiest -
IG>> the disappearance of lines (good if it happened before our eyes)

VM> I mean, is there such a glitch in MASM??! Yes, melancholy - no matter how good
VM> planned sabotage...
That's how it happens (c) :(((

VM> Let's ask I. Aniskovets in a minute <- that means who is to blame that
VM> game makers are leaving the spec :)))
:)))
Yes Masm - that's okay - switching to Alasm wouldn't have caused very
big problems.

See you,
Ivan.

Saturday June 28 1997 15:16, Yury Matveyev ─── Evgeny Milun:

YM> I WILL WRITE YOU IN THE SUCH LETTERS (Especially for the blind):
YM> IF THE PROGRAM WASN’T GOING ON OURS ON COMPUTERS WE WOULD NEVER
YM> INSERT IT INTO THE ROOM, BECAUSE WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO WATCH IT
YM> AT WORK.
Why are you worried. So I'm throwing it here. The people will launch it themselves and see everything. If I'm wrong, then everyone will see once again how bad I am. And how disgustingly I find fault with you.
Although, here, it seems, even the author of this version himself confirmed my words. Will you continue to persist?

P.S. If only you had looked more closely then (not even in March, but much earlier). I would have launched this program, found this glitch in it, admitted to it,
then... And since instead you began to attack me, then you yourself confirmed our words.

P.P.S. Maybe throw all the other “running” programs here? Maybe then you will finally admit that you made mistakes? And will you stop considering me (and making me out to be) some kind of idiot-lamer, who constantly attacks you dirty (my words, but - your interpretation)?

Hasta la vista, Evgeny! See you in Eden!

·∙ Novikov Sergei AKA Spirit/CS ∙·
[Team ZX ASM] [Team AMD - Amiga Must Die]
[Team Овны Rulez Forever]

EM> No. Tell. In my opinion, it was somewhere around the end of 94.

Imho, 93... Four years, however :)

EM> As far as I remember, until the summer-autumn of 96, few people saw the Novosibirsk ELITE-3
EM>.

Imho, everyone who needed it saw it. It’s not for nothing that in 96 you are unlikely to find it in the top ten best-selling games.

PS: I got it at least 2 years ago...

SN>> See for yourself REBEL STAR/OBEROH#1.

EM> Well, I forgot. Sorry. I thought that since then (in March)
EM> this topic seemed to be closed, then my answers satisfied you.

Well, what I said was that your phrase that “Stepovites _never_
give examples to support their statements” is false.

SN> IMHO, ’93... Four years, however :)

You’re wrong. Kladov released the third Elite in the spring of 1994. In Moscow, it appeared
only with us (in approximately April), we, in accordance with the agreement with Kladov
did not give it to anyone. By other means, the game got to Moscow towards the end of the year (so
I’m right).

══════ All the best! Yupiy ════════════

DG>> people will laugh at you for a long time ;)

EM> You already threatened to do this once, haven’t you forgotten? Well, come on, come on.

Ah... of course, there’s nothing to test... And there’s no time...

EM> Or maybe we’ll organize some kind of Championship? I say right away - you will win.
EM> Since you have done _much_ less programs than I have, therefore

Are you sure? Well, what if we add to mine one and a half hundred tape versions and disk adaptations, many of which, made in 93-95, are of a better level than the hacks included in the appendix to your magazine? What if we add three games on BC? No, there won't be a championship, the "weight categories" are different...

EM> and the total number of mistakes you have is less.

Of course less. But for a different reason.

DG>> Please list the glitches, only the viewer glitches that affected

EM> Look for yourself. You are the author.

:)) Once again I ask you to name the announced glitches in my programs that I
don’t know about, and again and again I hear “see for yourself.” Admit it, you didn’t find any glitches there,
be an honest boy :)))

With respect, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

Monday June 30, 1997 12:33, Evgeny Milun wrote to Dmitry Grigoryev:

EM> Well, give an example of an _ABSOLUTE_ _UNIQUE_ _PROGRAM_. Maybe I agree with
EM> you.

Easy :) Absolutely unnecessary program.

Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).

SN> Well, the reason I said this is that your phrase that “Step dancers _never_
SN> give examples to support their statements” is false.
Okay, let it be false. Let it be different: "... _rarely_ ..."
Topic closed?

Good luck! Evgeny.

SN> Well, since no one remembers, then we will assume that this never happened... Until
SN> someone suddenly “remembers” or admits...
No, it still happened... And what does “no one remembers” mean? I don’t remember
only I, and I don’t feel like rummaging through the database.
Okay, let’s assume that it was “inspired by music.”

Good luck! Evgeny.

AL>> a lot,

VM> IMHO, I think so too. There was a mass exodus to Dandy+PC. Now
VM> the outflow/inflow is approximately the same.

This was the case two years ago, but lately it has actually been absent.

Good luck! Evgeny.
───────────── ──────────────────────── ──────────────────────── ─────────────────
'... That's all... The world is on fire,
But the thunder will not subside - the Spirit of War,
it demands more."
ARIA'95, "Spirit of War"

So, I repeat once again, the version with STS MASM 1.1 IS GLUCIOUS SOLELY FOR THE REASON
THE COOL HACKER &^*^@.
Also, do not use the _beta_ versions of MASM.
AND IT IS NOT THERE ANYWHERE IT'S WRITTEN THAT IT'S BETA!
YOU SHOULD BUY FROM INFORKOM, AND NOT DOWNLOAD IT FROM TITUS or Someone Else...

Claims about this version are not accepted, and I'm starting to think that here
not everyone buys software from dealers, and then all the screaming about "glitches" are simply
meaningless.

And let's not talk about the guilt of anyone in the decline of Speccy, those who wanted
switched to ALASM, TASM, XASM or anything else, but we must not forget that after
TASM, and then MASM, a wave of assemblymania began, and who knows what would
now what was and what was not...

P.S.: The original version was tested in IFC, and I still use
MASM, THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED!
The only thing that was noticed is that MASM does not do EI when starting the program, which
was right away corrected.

Best Regards,
Ilya .

Sabotage! What a!!!
After the appearance of MASM in IFC, ^@#&^^&# of the one who did it was soon released
a version with STS (built in, hackers, damn it)
So in this version, which the same someone dubbed 1.1, EVERYTHING IS GLUCIOUS!
I, like KSA, We are using our modification for STS, we had to jump insert
:)

Wednesday July 02 1997 10:46, Vladimir Bogdanovitch wrote to Yury Matveyev:

VB> As far as I know, there is a storage room ELITE-4 on 4 disks. Has anyone
VB> seen her? True, the protection there is sophisticated. We had one
VB> copy in our city, but it disappeared along with the computer (it was stolen), so I didn’t have a chance to look at
VB>.

It’s hard to believe... Somebody must have told you fairy tales. :)

C u l8r,
Dmitry aka ZDW.

IA> Let me ask you, did you buy MASM from IFC?
I admit - no, I didn’t buy it - I wrote it down from a friend.

IA> Where did you get this version from? This glitch was in the _BETA_ version of MASM, and in
IA> MASM IFC was already fixed.
Who knew it? Do you think I'm the only one?

IA> The worst thing is that people don't appreciate other people's work :(
I agree :(((
But since it was a beta version, why are you so angry?

IA> After the appearance of MASM in IFC, ^@#&^^&# of the one who did it
IA> soon came out, version with STS (built in, hackers, damn it) So in this
IA> version, which the same someone dubbed 1.1 EVERYTHING IS GLUCIOUS! I, like KSA,
IA> use our modification for STS, I had to jump
IA> insert :) Just like me I realized that there was an old version of MASM floating around in
IA>, there was a glitch with lines disappearing. It looks like some kind
IA> guy couldn’t stand it and downloaded the beta to everyone.
Bzhi, I didn’t understand - so IFC, perhaps, distributed a buggy version?

IA> So, once again. I repeat, the version with STS MASM 1.1 IS GLUCIOUS EXCLUSIVELY BY
IA> BECAUSE OF THE COOL HACKER &^*^@. Also, you don’t need to use _beta_
IA> versions of MASM.
IA> AND IT’S NOT WRITTEN HERE ANYWHERE that it is BETA!
:)))))))
Well, of course...

IA> YOU SHOULD HAVE BUYED FROM INFORCOM, AND NOT DOWNLOADED IT FROM TITUS or Whoever
IA> more...
We've passed - so much time has already passed.

IA> Claims about this version are not accepted, but I'm starting to think
IA> that not everyone here buys software from dealers, and therefore all the cries about
IA> "glitches" are simply meaningless.
You see, there were glitches it’s obvious... That explained - thank you.

IA> And let’s not talk about anyone’s guilt in the decline of Speccy, those who
IA> wanted to switch to ALASM, TASM, XASM or something else, but we shouldn’t
IA> forget that after TASM, and then MASM, a wave of
IA> assembler mania began, and who knows what would happen now and what wouldn’t happen...
Come on! No one is underestimating your contribution to the development of
assembler mania.

See you,
Ivan.

VB> Has anyone seen her? True, the protection there is sophisticated. We had
VB> one copy in our city, but it disappeared along with the computer (it was stolen), so I
VB> was not able to look at it.

Yeah, and these are the stories in all the cities: they stole it, dropped it in the mud,
spilled tea, etc. IMHO there was no Elite-4 from Kladov.

__
__/// /With/ /Best/ /Regards/ 39:245/1.0@amiganet
\XX/ /Alex/ /Kovrigin/ 2:5000/28.19@fidonet

DZ> ???
EM>> You didn’t know???? About a year and a half ago I tried to “switch to
EM>> MASM”. In general, I cursed for a long time...
DZ> I don’t really understand what kind of glitch - since I’ve been using Masm for a long time - there was no such thing,
DZ> the only thing I can find fault with is the glitches due to going into BASIC and
DZ> returning to Masm, and not installing ei when starting the assembled program.
DZ> Well, there were glitches after reading the catalog - I already forgot which ones, I corrected them a long time ago
DZ>, maybe this is it... For some reason I prefer other ass-frames
DZ> and I’m unlikely to switch to others.
Let’s throw it in the echo, maybe you have some special MASM or tell
how you use it, that the lines don’t disappear?

Regards Andy Man\PoS\PCCC

Friday July 04 1997 10:10, Andrey Mihaylow wrote in a message to Dmitry
Zubarev:

DZ>> assembled program. Well, there were glitches after reading the catalog -
DZ>> I already forgot which ones, I fixed them a long time ago, maybe this is it...
DZ>> For some reason I prefer Masm to other ass-frames and I’m unlikely to switch to others
DZ>> Let’s throw it in the echo, maybe you have some special MASM or
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A Have you at least asked the authors and IFC if they agree?

AM> tell me how you use it, that the lines don’t disappear?
Most likely it’s just Masm from IFC.
And you from the left channels (beta version)...

Best Regards,
Ilya .

IA> Most likely he is just Masm from IFC.
IA> And you are from the left channels (beta version)...

What do we have - don’t we store? Having lost, do we cry?

With best wishes, Vladimir.

Thursday July 03 1997 23:15, Ilya Aniskovets ─── Ivan Gudkov:

[.....]

IA> P.S.: The original version was tested for about a month at IFC,
Tell you about _how_ they test ? And about the quality of this “testing”?
IA> and I still use MASM, NEVER THIS HAS HAPPENED!
Ah, well, well. So everything is still ahead.

Good luck! Evgeny.

Wednesday July 02 1997 10:05, Alex Letaev ─── Evgeny Milun:

[.....]
EM>> Eh-h-x-x-x. Then let's go from the other side - how to make it so that
EM>> when reading a sector with some number, one
EM>> information is read alternately, then another?

AL> Well, it's actually a floating sector, recorded on a screwed-up drive, in theory
AL> (99%) each times must give a new meaning.
Uh-uh-uh-uh, dear. You think in patterns, in patterns.
This can happen when... when... when on the same track - two or
more sectors have the _identical_ _number_.

Good luck! Evgeny.

Ilya! Why all these stories about an evil uncle?
We received our portion of MASM _personally_ from _KSA_ (ask if he remembers DRAGON
from Izhevsk, and those 30 discs of ours that he wanted to send us?).
And he did not warn us that it was _BETA_, but simply said take it and
use it (well, or something like that), this was in March of last year year,
when MASM was already distributed in _IFORCOM_ !!!

VL> What do we have - don’t we store? Having lost it, do we cry?
Exactly - give MASM to your uncle, and go to...

EM> Should I tell you about _how_ they test? And about the quality of this
EM> “testing”?
Hey, tell me, tell me...

Monday July 07 1997 21:05, Vladimir Larkov wrote in a message to Ilya
Aniskovets:

AM>>> tell me how you use it, that the lines do not disappear?

Saturday July 12 1997 18:23, Vladimir Larkov wrote in a message to Ilya
Aniskovets:

VL>>> What do we have - don’t we keep? When we lose, we cry?
IA>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IA>> Explain what you wanted to say by this.

VL> If your program is a public beta, this should be mentioned. The program does not declare anything about
VL> its beta status. Therefore, this is either a release or
VL> a raw material to which someone kindly attached legs. The circle of those who are able
VL> to attach legs to the author is well known. Consequently, the author himself is in a position to prevent the attachment of legs by simply not giving out the raw program to unreliable people. Why go broke then? I gave it away myself.
Oh, if only I didn’t know who attached it to my legs.
You see, I _PERSONALLY_ didn’t give anything away to anyone, and THIS IS NOT A PUBLIC BETA, BUT ONE
OF THE INTERMEDIATE VERSIONS which shouldn’t have gotten anywhere at all, but Stas
kind soul, I remember, Masm was definitely with TITUS and God knows who else...
In general, I’m tired of chatting on this topic, now I’ll calculate the control sum
of my MASM and throw it here.

Best Regards,
Ilya .

IA> Oh, if only I didn’t know who attached his legs.
IA> You see, I _PERSONALLY_ didn’t give anything away to anyone, and THIS IS NOT A PUBLIC
IA> BETA, BUT ONE OF THE INTERMEDIATE VERSIONS which shouldn’t have gotten anywhere at all
IA> but Stas is a kind soul, I remember Masm was definitely with TITUS
IA> and God knows who else...
IA> In general, I’m tired of chatting on this topic, now I’ll calculate the control
IA> amount of my MASM and throw it here.

Titus has a peculiarity if he promised not to give a prog there is no one, then FUCK!