CP/M vs TR-DOS

PS: all attempts to replace TR-DOS, FORTUNELY, failed. were crowned with success. :)

Sorry again!
Don’t kick your feet at the semi-literary genre of the message, sometimes it’s useful to
take a break from business. Isn't it? :)

With respect, Andrey Savichev/CGS, a middle-aged man who wrote the first
“prog” in his life in 1981 at the lab
, in LETI, in codes for, it seems, NAIRI.

AS>
AS> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AS> now - NO. The “dead system” and I are just one of
AS> shadows trying to live in this ghostly kingdom ;) The main
AS> “accusations” against CP/M: - slowdown(?) when emulating(?) a terminal;
AS> (for virtuals this is not a hindrance :) ) - in the mid-70s there were no graphic
AS> terminals even at the level The Spectrum screen system (and no
AS> other graphic) is not supported. The advantage of CP/M:
AS> portability and the presence of a large amount (to put it mildly! I should
AS> write IMMENSE quantity) software, for all “old-fashioned” tastes,
AS> and most importantly - it’s available _cool_!!! optimizing compiler C
AS> :) Unlike even DOS, it is a very simple OS, which
AS> works well for a programmer :)

In the beginning there was UNIX. Which AT&T laid its paw on. Then the company Digital
Research made a simple system, reminiscent of UNIX, CP/M (then a multitasking software, MP/M, was written on its basis). This was done by fairly competent people, which could not but affect the quality of the software.
When IBM developed its “toy” PC, they did not seriously think about supporting this “ugly duckling” with software. A little hacking
and Microsoft becamea powerful “software” power, and Bill
Gates is the richest rogue on Earth...
So many people are unlucky that they don’t even want to think about it...

AS> In general, old software is the property of humanity, part of its
AS> cultural heritage! And those who want to join - it’s very possible
AS> to understand. If computers existed in the time of Sherlock Holmes,
AS> I can imagine with what trepidation we would run programs written by the hand
AS> of Conan Doyle!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Sufficiently developed formal descriptions evoke amazement with their elegance and trust with their accuracy. But in order for their content to be easily understood by oneself and explained to others, explanations are needed. For this reason, I believe that
future specifications should consist of both formal and
textual descriptions.

"How software systems are designed and built" by F. P. Brooks ml.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

One of the best books on programming... The experience of a person who was
the head of the OS/360 project for IBM. Then he was replaced by F.M. Trapnell...

AS> Sincerely, Andrey Savichev/CGS, an elderly man who wrote the first
AS> “prog” in his life in 1981 at the lab, at LETI, in the codes
AS>for, it seems, NAIRI.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I also remember how easy it was to work on an IBM-650 machine,
even without an assembler and without anything at all software.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From there. Yes, there were people in our time... ;)

Sincerely, George

Well, let's put some more gunpowder in the flasks. :)
I wrote about HISTORY for a different purpose... so that very young people would think
that the Spectrum IS the computer that THE LARGEST AND PRESTIGIOUS
colleges in the USA DID NOT HAVE in the mid-50s! But even on those tube dinosaurs of the first generation, without operating systems, without dialogue, without assemblers! and
especially without Java, they set and solved problems and performed real miracles!
And if they THEN fell into the hands of Spectrum...
In a word, guys: Spectrum is cool!
And don’t listen to anyone who calls it, I won’t repeat how,
I’d rather remember about the bad dancer who... in a word, at least perch on a Merced
but if in the head, one gyrus will not help!
A computer is just an amplifier for the intellect, a laboratory for an inquisitive mind,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and turning it only into a game console?
Games are wonderful, especially if they are smart games :)
But it’s even more wonderful to WRITE, not to BREAK programs!
Write music, draw pictures and make animation and engage in
computer CREATIVITY.
Specky is a true faithful friend, whom nothing can replace!
Everything in it is done for our convenience and ease of working with it,
and what has not yet been done is in our power to do (which you can’t say about pussy
for example, you can’t say :( there they will do everything for you and will pull fromyou
money and at every step making it clear that all you can do in
writing is just laughter ;) )
There is an analogy with a chess program. Try to compete with the program that
inserts Kasparova.
Try loading the processor at 500 mips with 32 MB of memory.
You can, of course, try, but not suddenly and not right away.
Well, the toys...their toys are also...the same, but ours are completely different,
ours have a lot of touching things, like in children’s drawings.
And there it is BIG BUSINESS - and that says it all.
Sorry for the off-topic, I started with OSes, but ended up as always... :)

Sincerely, Andrey Savichev/CGS

Hallo Andrew!

Saturday March 21, 1998 16:31, Andrew Savichev wrote to All:

AS> From: "Andrew Savichev" <m...@satan.spb.su>

AS> Hello, George!

Well, why put 'All' in the To field?.. :(

AS> If you are interested in the history of the development of computers, I would be happy to talk to
AS> about this with you.

Do you think anyone is interested in this anymore?

AS> Well, let’s put some more powder in the flasks. :)
AS> I wrote about HISTORY for another purpose... so that very young people would think about
AS> that the Spectrum is BY THE POWER the computer that THE LARGEST
AS> AND PRESTIGIOUS colleges in the USA DID NOT HAVE IN THE mid-50s! But even on those lamp
AS> dinosaurs of the first generation, without operating systems, without dialogue, without
AS> assemblers! and even more so, without a Java computer, they posed and solved problems and performed real miracles! And if they THEN fell into the hands of Spectrum... In a word, guys:
AS> Spectrum is cool!

Spectrum had two more major advantages - cheapness and the presence of
a large amount of good (for the period of the early 80s) software...

AS> And don’t listen to anyone who calls him, I won’t repeat how, I
AS> would rather remember about the bad dancer who ...
AS> in one word, even perch on Merced, but if there is one
AS> gyrus in your head, thenand Merced won't help!

Those who call it that don't take their brains into account. Their “coolness” lies precisely in the fact that they perched on a Merc...

AS> Games are wonderful, especially if they are smart games :) But it is also
AS> more wonderful to WRITE, and not to BREAK programs!

You could learn on the Spectrum. Understand how to write programs.
Understanding the creativity of M$, I am already learning something else - how NOT to write programs... :(

AS> Write music, draw pictures and make animations and do
AS> computer CREATIVITY.

These are completely different creative tasks! Writing music and drawing pictures
probably better on some Amiga, but start learning programming needs to be done on something very simple, like the Spectrum... Moreover,
when the Spectrum had decent programs teaching assembly language programming, there was only debug for the PC.
Now the situation is different, the same Turbo Debugger provides a completely different
level of possibilities...

AS> Specky is a true faithful friend, whom nothing can replace. Everything is in it! AS> was made for our convenience and ease of working with it,

Maybe 10 years ago it seemed so, but today the concepts of convenience
have changed somewhat... It would be stupid to blame Spectrum for this, but it’s even
stupid not to notice it...

AS> and what hasn’t been done yet is in ourable to do (which you can’t say about pussy
AS> for example:( there they will do everything for you and will extract money from you
AS> and at every step making it clear that everything you can do
AS> in pussy is just a laugh ;) )

Interesting question. Let's take a look at the situation with the Spectrum
and the offtopic ;)

On the Spectrum, indeed, for a long time everyone did what he wanted.
Complete freedom, bordering on anarchy. It seems to be good, but as a result we have a lot of compatibility problems... A bunch of crooked and poorly documented versions of hardware. Lack of standard support for “non-standard” hardware from programs. Moreover, I, for example, tried to the best of my ability to change the situation. However, people did not accept the SHTRIH standards, just as they did not at one time appreciate the proposal to connect a video card from IBM to the Spectrum...
The semi-professional groups that were involved in the development of the Spectrum themselves went
the way you describe “piss”: just remember Is-Dos.
Again, more or less decent operating systems based on CP/M on the Spectrum
did not catch on... :(

Now about the PC. You can do the same thing on it as on the Spectrum,
that is, CREATIVITY. If your brain has enough convolutions ;) For example, when I
IBM appeared at home, I made a very compact and fast Fort system.
What it is notinterests fans of mastdykes, I don’t care at all.
There are quite interesting developments in working in Protect Mode, maybe
if time arises, I’ll write a simple and understandable system, because
the existing “monsters” do not satisfy me at all. Today, 32-bit access from regular 16-bit DOS tasks to the entire 4 GB memory of i386 and higher processors works perfectly. WITHOUT micro-software freaks like himem and emm. The protected mode monitor takes up
about 17 kilobytes with all the tables, by running the “sophisticated” Fort system
(less than 10 kilobytes), you can, for example, copy several megabytes of data to any
memory location with _one_ command... ;)

AS> Try loading the processor at 500 mips with 32 MB of memory. You can
AS> of course try, but not suddenly and not right away.

What does “try, download” have to do with it? Write useful programs, focusing on the “average” user... Most of my “writing” programs
work great on XT machines... Or can I tell you what other software
is missing on IBM? The list will be long ;)

AS> Well, the toys...their toys too...are the same, but ours are completely
AS> different, ours have a lot of touching things, like in children’s drawings.

Although I almost never play with toys, I can’t help butconfirm that I
Spectrum games are much nicer than the rubbish that takes up all the resources of
Pentiums...

AS> And there it is BIG BUSINESS - and that says it all.

Alas, BIG BUSINESS has already reached us. And there is no turning back, we must
adapt...

Sincerely, George

AS>> are completely different, ours have a lot of touching things, like in
AS>> children's drawings.

Wow, if you look at a real Speccy, you’ll at least burst... Nastalgia
however...

GS> Although I almost never play with toys, I can’t help but confirm
GS> that Spectrum games are much nicer to me than that one rubbish that
GS> takes up all the resources of Pentiums...

Similarly, even though I don’t play games, I like watching others play.
Although I haven’t seen such games on the stump that would take up all its resources...

GS> Alas, BIG BUSINESS has already reached us. And there is no turning back,
GS> we have to adapt...

Will he destroy the Spectrum or not? This is interesting... :(

Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

24 Mar 98 23:42, Alexey Ivanov wrote to George Shepelev:

AI> Likewise, even though I don’t play games, I like to watch how others play
AI>. Although I have not seen such games on the stump, so that all its resources
AI> were occupied...

What is this disease called when they get a thrill from peeping? :))

Sincerely
┬ ┬┌┐┬┐ ┐┬┬
╨╜╨╙╜╨╙ ╨ ╨

AI> And not only at that time. The same Golden Ax on the Spectrum is cooler than on the
AI pussy.
Either these are some kind of “alternative” Golden Axes from an alternative universe,
or you have somewhat strange concepts of “coolness”. :) I don’t see how b/w
graphics are better than color ones. And as well as small, flickering figures of characters that almost merge with the background...

Good luck! Evgeny.

■ The night is shorter than the day... The day will kill me... The world of illusions burns down in it. (C) Aria.

AI>> others like to play.

VY> What is this disease called when they get a thrill from
VY> voyeurism? :))

It depends on what you look at and what you get a kick out of ;)))

Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

How busy they are.
VY> What is this disease called when they get a thrill from peeping? :))
Voyeurism, imho.
<- With Best ReGardZ, Pavel
Virtual/Silence Crionix'98

VY>> voyeurism? :))

AI> It depends on what you spy on and what you get a kick out of ;)))

Exactly! When you watch how others play, you become smarter :))

Warm greetings, Slava!

[ Powered by iP200MMX/64Mb/5.2Gb/17"x1600x1200/CDx24/SB/14400/LJ5L ]

AI>> cooler than on a pussy.

EM> Either these are some kind of “alternative” Golden Axes from
EM> an alternative universe, or you have somewhat strange
EM> concepts of “coolness”. :) I don’t see how b/w graphics are cooler than color ones. And as well as small, flickering figures of characters that almost merge with the background...

It is written clearly: _at that time_ (on 286-386) they were very slow.
As for small snowstorms, I didn’t notice. On the Spectrum this toy works much faster and is controlled better. Maybe you're wearing your glasses on the wrong side? :)

Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

AI> It is written clearly: _at that time_ (at 286-386) they were very slow.
AI> As for small snowstorms, I didn’t notice. On the Spectrum this toy
AI> works much faster and is controlled better. Maybe you're wearing your glasses on the wrong side
AI>? :)

and by the way, spec attribute graphics had their advantages,
small but they were.

SPbZXNet 500:812/03.00 W!7h 7he Be$7 W!$he$ fR0M CREATOR product
Powered by Cyrix 6x86L 200+/16DIMM/S3TrV2 2Mb/SBPro/Q1.6Gb/CDx8/USR33.6

... Fire Starter (C) Prodigy

AI>> And not only at that time. The same Golden Ax on the Spectrum is cooler than
AI>> on the pussy.
EM> Either these are some kind of “alternative” Golden Axes from an alternative
EM> universe, or you have somewhat strange concepts of “coolness”. :) I
EM> I don’t see why b/w graphics are cooler than color ones. And as well as small,
EM> flickering figures of characters that almost merge with the background...

But the music there is definitely cooler ;)

__ With cre...@online.nsk.su
__/// Best 39:245/1.0@amiganet
\XX/ Regards 2:5000/28.19@fidonet

AI> I didn’t notice about minor snowstorms. On the Spectrum this toy works
AI> much faster and controls better. Maybe you're wearing your glasses on the wrong side? :)
No, most likely you and I are really talking about different games
(more precisely, I’m talking about the game Golden Ax, but you don’t know what). Although
I don’t rule out the possibility that you just wanted to argue...
Or you played them a little uh... “in condition.”

Saturday March 28 1998 17:32, Alex Kovrigin ─── Evgeny Milun:

AI>>> And not only at that time. The same Golden Ax on the Spectrum is cooler than
AI>>> on the pussy.
EM>> Either these are some kind of “alternative” Golden Axes from an alternative
EM>> universe, or you have somewhat strange concepts of “coolness”. :) I
EM>> I don’t see why b/w graphics are cooler than color ones. And as well as small,
EM>> flickering figures of characters that practically merge with the background...
AK> But the music there is definitely cooler ;)
And the “coolness” of a game is now determined by the music? :)

Mon 30 Mar 1998 15:34, Evgeny Milun wrote to Alexey Ivanov:

EM> No, most likely you and I are really talking about
EM> different games (more precisely, I’m talking about the game Golden Ax, but you -
EM> unknown about what). Although, I don’t exclude the possibility that
EM> you just wanted to argue...

2ALL: Your subjective opinion: Where was it more pleasant to play Golden Ax -
on the Spectrum or on the PC?

EM> Or did you play them
EM> a little uh... “in good condition”.

And your “uh...” is a new emoticon or how?

Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

EM> Is the “coolness” of a game now determined by its music? :)

One of the components of success...

WBR, Alex Kovrigin <cre...@online.nsk.su>

... CD32PPC

Good luck! Evgeny.

■ The night is shorter than the day... The day will kill me... The world of illusions burns down in it. (C) Aria.

AK> One of the components of success...
Nightmapppppppppppppppp... :)) “One of the components”, but not the _main_.
In addition... Many generally try to turn off the background
music if possible...

Tuesday March 31 1998 09:49, Alexey Ivanov wrote to Evgeny Milun:

AI> 2ALL: Your subjective opinion: Where was it more pleasant to play Golden Ax -
AI> on the Spectrum or on the PC?

Honestly? On Amiga! Although I saw it for the first time on a PC - it was a steering wheel... 1991
however. Then almost immediately on speccy, music on the beeper... SUPERB!
But the playability was somewhat lower.

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · ··· Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru · · · · · ·

EM> Nightmapppppppppppppppp... :)) “One of the components”, but not
EM> _the main one_.

Really? ;)

EM> Besides... Many generally try to
EM> turn off the background music whenever possible...

There is no need to talk about “many”. By the way, there was no background music there.

AK> There is no need to talk about “many”.
Well, I certainly understand that there are people who are ready to listen to the same melody
for hours while playing... ;)) But, you must admit, not everyone is such
mosahists. After 3-4 (let's say 6-7) repetitions, the music is usually turned off. ;))
AK> By the way, there was no background music there.
Then what are we talking about? About some 5-10 second musical insert at the end of the mission? ;)

EM> Is there a lot of music in Tetris? And in UFO-1, 2? In Laser Squad? In adventure
EM>? So what, they are now “not playable”? :)

For example, in Tetris2+ by Golden Triangle there is a lot of music and that’s good!

EM> Why do you even download the game - to listen to music, or still
EM> to play? :)

Very funny.

EM> Well, of course I understand, there are people who are ready to listen to the same melody for hours while
EM> while playing... ;)) But, you must agree - not
EM> all such mosahists. After 3-4 (let's say 6-7) repetitions, the music is usually TURNED OFF. ;))

To be more precise, after 6-7 repetitions they begin to play another game.

EM> Then what are we talking about? About some 5-10 second musical
EM> insert at the end of the mission? ;)

At the beginning of the game.

AK> For example, in Tetris2+ by Golden Triangle there is a lot of music and this is good!
And in Tetris Dos Navigator (on IBM) not a single note is played at all, and nevertheless, I personally consider this version to be the most successful...
Well, okay, with Tetris it’s clear, but what about the others I’ve given programs?
Are they also cool only because... that somewhere in them there is music? Well
okay, in UFO-1 and UFO-2 there is a beginning of the game. In Laser Squad? And ELITE
is generally “junk” (there’s no music anywhere there)? And, again, in
adventures? The same HOBBIT? RED MOON? KAYLETH ?

EM> And in Dos Navigator's Tetris (on IBM) - not a single
EM> note is played at all, and nevertheless, I personally consider this version to be the most
EM> successful...

What disgusting.

EM> A ELITE turns out to be generally “junk” (there’s no music anywhere there)?

Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill.

EM> And, again, in adventure games? The same HOBBIT? RED MOON? KAYLETH ?

Did you see Neverending Story 128?

EM> No, it’s rather sad. When a user begins to value
EM> the musical design of a game above the “playability” itself,
EM> game makers can only sympathize.

Where did I say that? By the way, the playability in the ZX version of Golden Ax
is still higher than in the IBM PC version.

EM> After 5-6 repetitions of the same melody, 5-6 minutes long? :))
EM> Another game? :)

By replay I meant restarting the game. The next day
for example.

AK> Neverending Story 128 seen?
Seen. I didn't like the font. And what ? "The Neverending Story" against all
others? And what now - all other adventures are much worse than this one?
Have you ever played Sherlock? I have never seen a more intelligent interface in any other game (for example, it doesn’t write “I don’t
understand” like others when you simply try to open a door without specifying which of the two
visible to you, but asks again “which door”; in one word - clarifies
in dialogue mode what you wanted to do). This time. Two - how many percent
of the time you communicate with “The Neverending Story” do you listen to its music?
More questions about adventures?

AK>> Δ‘¡‘… …«p¡¬≈ÃÿŒœ”‘ÿ ◊ ZX ◊≈p”…… Golden Axe ◊”≈ ‘¡À… ◊Ÿ€≈ fi≈Õ ◊ IBM
AK>> PC ◊≈p”…….

EM> Ï¡ƒŒœ, ◊œ⁄◊p¡›¡≈Õ”— À Golden Axe. œ◊‘œp—¿ ≈›≈ p¡⁄ - ◊ Õ≈ÃÀœ 
EM> Õ≈Ãÿ‘≈€¡›≈  fi≈pŒœ-¬≈Ãœ  «p¡∆…À≈, — Œ≈ ◊…÷’ Œ…À¡Àœ«œ "–ÿ”¡"

„◊≈‘Œœ  «“¡∆…À≈. Ùœ“Õœ⁄. :-/

...So you wanna be adored and exposed! (c)

Spirit^DR [s-no...@usa.net]

EM> Is this a new joke? :)))

Naturally.

EM> (By the way, why do you COMPLETELY delete ALL YOUR words
EM> when quoting? By the way, the meaning of some of my phrases changes if you don’t know
EM> what words of yours I said them. In particular, the meaning of this phrase now
EM> is not at all what it would have been, leave your words that: “I
EM> talk about the music at the beginning of the game.” It’s not good, anyway.)

I’m just responding to your words, not my own ;)
And if it’s difficult, then it’s called “the art of quoting.”
By the way, is this phrase not buried yet? Then it's mine! ;)

EM> P.S. Okay, let's put this conversation to rest. Otherwise, I see you are already

For nothing!

EM> you are slowly starting to burn up, and there is already a distinct smell in the air
EM> flame.

On the contrary!

AK> So you don’t know how to immerse yourself in the virtual world of the game. It's like
AK> meditation, all extraneous disturbances should be ignored by you
AK> and music too ;) That's why I don't turn it off ;)
:))) I emerged from _such_ "virtual world" already 2-3 years ago... And the one
in which I'm "plunging" now, music occupies an important place, which _me_ likes, and not the author of the program. :).

EM> And you give it a try... Should we understand your words to mean that you yourself have never
EM> never played PC?

Exactly, I tried both. The control panel was passed on the second attempt (at 33 Mhz). On 66 it was more difficult, but on current computers
it is very difficult to get through. But it appeared on two-room apartments.

AK>> I won’t even compare UFO and UFO, because I've never played them and
AK>> I'm not going to play.
EM> :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
EM> ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Rot don’t open up too widely, I have my own taste, I play whatever I want.

EM> Sorry for such a direct and sharp question - “Then why the hell did you
EM> get involved in this discussion, where we initially discussed IBM_games
EM> vs SPECTRUM_games?!”

I got involved about Golden Ax (can I repeat to you what I said then?),
I didn’t mention NLO and UFO at all.